Jump to content
  • The above Banner is a Sponsored Banner.

    Upgrade to Premium Membership to remove this Banner & All Google Ads. For full list of Premium Member benefits Click HERE.

  • Join The Silver Forum

    The Silver Forum is one of the largest and best loved silver and gold precious metals forums in the world, established since 2014. Join today for FREE! Browse the sponsor's topics (hidden to guests) for special deals and offers, check out the bargains in the members trade section and join in with our community reacting and commenting on topic posts. If you have any questions whatsoever about precious metals collecting and investing please join and start a topic and we will be here to help with our knowledge :) happy stacking/collecting. 21,000+ forum members and 1 million+ forum posts. For the latest up to date stats please see the stats in the right sidebar when browsing from desktop. Sign up for FREE to view the forum with reduced ads. 

Should Replicas be stopped on eBay ?


Pete

Recommended Posts

I know it is a bit of tough love, but if people are down right stupid enough not to due their own due diligence & research into what they are buying from fleabay they deserve everything they get.

Caveat emptor /ˌkævɛɑːt ˈɛmptɔr/ "Let the buyer beware"  

If it was not for stupid bidders buying this fake toot, it wouldn't sell and the scammers would go to selling the next fake fad items ie OneDirection hair straightener combi waffle irons

Don't want to be scammed? don't buy off eBay it really is as simple as that- SIMPLE and buy your bullion from a respectable dealer.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 200
  • Created
  • Last Reply
1 hour ago, Paul said:

I know it is a bit of tough love, but if people are down right stupid enough not to due their own due diligence & research into what they are buying from fleabay they deserve everything they get.

Caveat emptor /ˌkævɛɑːt ˈɛmptɔr/ "Let the buyer beware"  

If it was not for stupid bidders buying this fake toot, it wouldn't sell and the scammers would go to selling the next fake fad items ie OneDirection hair straightener combi waffle irons

Don't want to be scammed? don't buy off eBay it really is as simple as that- SIMPLE and buy your bullion from a respectable dealer.  

There is some merit in what you say but there are also many bullion dealers that buy back, including our reputable favourites, and I have a suspicion that they would not bother to test a fake silver one ounce coin that looks genuine. It would not be cost effective. That means these fakes could end up in your stack regardless of how careful you are as a buyer. The only solution is to criminalise it and prosecute the sellers hard & fast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you report fake coins on Ebay they don't give you any feedback, so you never know if they look into any complaints.

RCM do get back to you if you report counterfeit coins to them that you see on eBay, but I get the feeling that as it's only a small amount for sale they aren't that bothered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've just been accused of selling a fake bar on eBay.  Even showed them a video of me testing it through the Sigma Precious Metal Verifier but they still weren't convinced.  They claim it must be silver plated and that if I did a destructive test on it I would find copper in the middle.  I know they're genuine but did it anyway just to prove a point.

Sorry it's a little off topic as I didn't want to start a new thread and since this is about replicas I thought I'd post it here.

2015-11-12 22.10.37.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not same bar.  They claimed that my stock of bars were fakes due to the poor quality.  No idea what test(s) they did but if the actually did any, it would have showed they were genuine 99.9% silver.  They wanted a refund before sending the bar back but I refused.  I need the bar back before a refund is issued.  They still want a CoinBar so no doubt they'll buy another from eBay and they'll more than likely end up with a fake.  The problem with the CoinBars is that the fakes are manufactured to a much higher standard than the original. FriedrichVonHayek had the same problem and ended up melting his bars.

 

I'll just keep the bar for the metal content and chuck it in with the other loose silver.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, morezone said:

I've just been accused of selling a fake bar on eBay.  Even showed them a video of me testing it through the Sigma Precious Metal Verifier but they still weren't convinced.  They claim it must be silver plated and that if I did a destructive test on it I would find copper in the middle.  I know they're genuine but did it anyway just to prove a point.

Sorry it's a little off topic as I didn't want to start a new thread and since this is about replicas I thought I'd post it here.

2015-11-12 22.10.37.jpg

I rest my case about the outright stupidity of some eBay buyers.

to back up your video you didn't have to provide

Morezone --> to add

  • 10,000+ feedback
  • 100% positive feedback
  • Top rated seller
  • Seller since 2001
  • 44+ of the same items already sold
  • ZERO negative feedback

..............and they are still not convinced its genuine

Oxygen thieves some of our beloved society are these days. Glad i changed my cash out plan for later in life to sell direct back to dealer to save the hassles and crap of buyers like these.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Paul said:

Glad i changed my cash out plan for later in life to sell direct back to dealer to save the hassles and crap of buyers like these.

Definitely wouldn't want to be cashing out through eBay.

The buyer sent images and details to Scottsdale last night and he received a reply stating that the bar looks and sounds genuine.  The reason for the poor quality was because they outsourced the minting of the bars.  No idea why they would do such a things and slap their name on it too.

 

The situation with fakes is getting out of hand.  So many people at it and one day, all these fakes are going to bite everyone on the butt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It worries me that the fraudsters out there with their fake coins and bars could start buying the genuine items from the likes of us then claiming they received fakes which of course they already have. A quick test proves the coin or bar is a fake and eBay refunds them instantly and you the genuine seller are left clearing up the mess, and probably loose your coin as well. How can you prove that the Maple or Panda you sold is not the one tested as fake, and if you want your coin returned, how can you ever be sure you get the original back ? Is it coming to the time perhaps of marking stuff with invisible / security inks ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's getting ridiculous with pandas on ebay. Just had a quick search for sold irems and the number sold from China is frightening; people are actually buying these in their droves even though many are listed as "medals"!

A few years down the line and it's going to make collecting these coins a nightmare; there will be so many fakes in the aftermarket, finding genuine coins will be next to impossible.

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/12/2015, 10:17:56, morezone said:

I've just been accused of selling a fake bar on eBay.  Even showed them a video of me testing it through the Sigma Precious Metal Verifier but they still weren't convinced.  They claim it must be silver plated and that if I did a destructive test on it I would find copper in the middle.  I know they're genuine but did it anyway just to prove a point.

Sorry it's a little off topic as I didn't want to start a new thread and since this is about replicas I thought I'd post it here.

2015-11-12 22.10.37.jpg

I was accused of the same thing with the same Scottsdale bars on eBay.

This was the final straw for me with regard to selling .999 Silver on eBay and why I usually just buy hallmarked .925 Silver.

I ended up taking a loss on these as I just ended up melting them with my .925.

The thing was I knew I would have problems with them as the edges were very rough,I would assume that the Chinese fakes are far better quality apart from the fact that they are plated.

(Sorry just read the other post and I have noticed that my problems with these bars have already been mentioned) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For this reason you have to define whether you are a collector or an investor as you have to be able to liquidate your investment quickly without any hindrance.

I started off as a collector but now I am only interested in investing in precious metals for their metal content.

After my bad experience on eBay I recognised that if eBay is unwilling to do anything about the fakes, then it was pointless buying .999 Silver coins and bars as you are vulnerable to all kinds of scams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Murph said:

Look at the price this "5 dollar Indian head" has gone up to already even though it only weighs 4.7g

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Extremely-Rare-5-Five-Dollar-gold-coin-1910-Indian-head-/252165372066

 

Two possible scenarios unfolding here, both are bad :(

  • Scammer selling the under weight fake $5 lists item via his main established selling ID, 200+ feedback and 100% rating, knowing full well it is fake
  • Scammer changes IP address via mobile dongle, clear his browsing history,cache and cookies via ccleaner to hide traces of shill bidding. 
  • Scammer logs into his main buying ebay ID and places the price he wants for the fake that he is happy with i.e. the going market rate
  • Scammer disconntects from mobile dongle and repeats the above with another buying shill bidding ID with different account details he has made with low feedback and used a virtual credit card available from any supermarket to create
  • Scammers 2nd bidding ID make incremented small bids to raise the bid count to increase exposure to x40+ bids
  • eBay now hides bidding ID and just show feedback numbers and masked details 

http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=252165372066&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

  • Scammer purchases a $5 deal to massively increase the number of watches on an item to raise it in ebay best match search criteria to the very top most popular via fiver site or similar

https://uk.fiverr.com/search/gigs?utf8=%E2%9C%93&search_in=everywhere&source=guest-hp&locale=en-GB&en_query=&query=ebay+watches&page=1&layout=auto

  • Watch count on item is currently x27.  (Are there x27 illi-informed or are they purchased ?  we don't know)
  • Search  Extremely Rare $5 Five Dollar gold coin 1910 Indian head on http://www.watchcount.com/advanced.php#serp (auction)
  • The poor unsuspecting winner later tonight not researching properly feels secure it is real as x45 bids have been placed and he has 100% feedback and over 200+ rating and chooses not to verify its authenticity and ads it too his stack.
  • Low start, many bid auctions.  Up the profile of an eBay listing in best match search results for anyone searching 'gold coin' auctions

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?LH_Auction=1&_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=gold+coin+%245&_sop=5

  • Winner wins the item, thinking all is hunky dory due to the lots of bids, good feedback etc. after all x40+ cant be wrong.  and not everyone can be wrong
  • We cannot any more inform the highest bidder of the fact like you could in the past in eBay early days because eBay say they look to protect the buyer from scams from 3rd party direct contact.


........................or it could be the just case he has made a genuine mistake and bought the same fake himself on ebay in past and has not done his due diligence and research into what is or is not a genuine $5 Indian head, and several other daft bidders have done the same and not researched and checked either.  i.e. blind leading the blind

Either above scenarios may be true, but hey, im just mistrusting and cynical me - ignore the conspiracy in everything rants :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well the dodgy $5 Indian head ended up selling for £205 last night 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Extremely-Rare-5-Five-Dollar-gold-coin-1910-Indian-head-/252165372066

Baird & Co dont currently have any, but if they had you could have bought from the oldest UK bullion dealer & refiner for £10 cheaper and guaranteed real, than fleabay dodgy copy

quote-there-s-a-sucker-born-every-minute

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand you guys saying ebay buyers are stupid, just think what has happened to 2 of the forum members in this thread Morezone and FVH, I would argue that what happened to them is because Ebay won't stop fake, copies, counterfeit coins or what ever you want to call the coins. This puts the buyer on edge, suspicious from the start.  Drawing in new buyers of Gold/Silver coins and new collectors of Gold and Silver can only be good for the long term, can you imagine starting out in a hobby or investment and finding out you wasted your money you were conned, I know I would then steer clear.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even taking eBay totally out of the equation fake gold and silver coins have been around since the dawn of time, so it is in no way a modern phenomenon or something just came around  

The first known example of fake gold coins were found in the Greek city of Lydia, in the years long before Christ.

Created by shaving off the edges of a real coin or mixing lesser amounts of gold with other base metals.

The Persian Daric was also a often copied gold coin, in various denominations.

The Roman government even created their own fake gold coins. This was done primarily through debasement, using less and less gold over time.

doing this to the money played a major role in the downfall of the Roman Empire.

As the Byzantine Empire fell, the Islamic empires also began striking and faking gold coins. Some of the more commonly counterfeited coins during this era are the gold dinars of the Umayyad Caliphate

So fake gold/silver coins & modern technology is nothing new.  Did these folk of years gone by have the internet and its wealth of information and experience to educate and inform THEMSELVES as we have today ? NO.   

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to let any new Gold Silver buyers, these are the tools you NEED

 

  1. Scales
  2. 2 loops  1-2 1/2 and 1-10
  3. magnet rare earth type
  4. Calipers electronic
  5. resource information about each coin bar you are going to buy. This can be from a book or to start online. 
  6. If you want the coin to look nice buy cotton gloves, capsules etc. 
  7. Storage, before you buy think properly about storage. Safes etc or where are you going to hide your collection.  
  8. Delivery, where do you live is it safe to have the postman bringing special delivery to your house, do you need to pick the coins/bar up. This could be from the Royal Mail. 
  9. A list of dealers, you can find these on this web site. 

Thats to get you started 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having the right tools is certainly adviseable as well as knowledge but when sellers are listing fakes and describing them as replicas then this should be outlawed. The replicas / fakes are not hidden so there is no need to check as they are sold as fakes. The problem lies in that the coin shows all the markings of being genuine and therefore counterfeit. If I made good photocopies of bank notes I would be visited by the police so why not get arrested faking silver coins with the queen's head and a dollar face value ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Pete said:

If I made good photocopies of bank notes I would be visited by the police so why not get arrested faking silver coins with the queen's head and a dollar face value ?

The cynic in me would say that they are happy for the public to lack confidence, and doubt the authenticity in traditional forms of currency. The Government backed fiat must of course be protected at all costs.

 

Currently stacking 1/4 oz (22ct) and Sovs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Cookies & terms of service

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. By continuing to use this site you consent to the use of cookies and to our Privacy Policy & Terms of Use