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Palladium is the future of PM, so why are there not many collectors in the UK.


goldfinger999

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For me personally i am not that educated in Platinum and Palladium as it has been out of my price range,so i just don't look at it as an investment for me..As a collectible,a one off gift to my self,or a novelty item to diversify the stack a little, would be my entry point into those metals more than an investment opportunity,but with still an eye on the exit plan of preservation of wealth.I think PT and PD are good vehicles to preserve one's wealth , something different not all ones egg's in one basket as it where.As i have said before i think because of choice gold is easier to off load in the high street , gold has the edge as a stacker.Saying that i have no evidence of that as i have never tried to sell the two P's to find out.I am presuming.Never say never though.

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Hi Goldfinger,

 

Yes, I understand your concerns.  I personally don't believe any potential meltdown will happen anytime soon, but like you said this is obviously a personal matter.  

 

Yep, that's true, many ETF's use derivatives and track the underlying asset.  You don't actually own the asset.  They still have their purposes, potentials and are very versatile however.  

 

To thing to remember however is to be realistic about it, or anything.  Realistically in all probability, what is the chance that the entire financial system will collapse?  1 in 1000? 1 in 10,000?  We should be honest here.  0.0001%?  Basically sure it may happen, but at the same time it's slim odds.  So to then let such a small % dictate your entire investing strategy and portfolio seems a little far-fetched in my personal opinion, especially when there are always alternative work around methods available.

 

With paper assets, since they're very liquid, you can always just sell your paper and then buy bullion straight from a dealer with the cash all very quickly.  Most gold ETF's and ETN's aren't suppose to be exchanged directly for gold , they're exchanged for cash, which you can then use to buy gold with for example.  If the lottery of financial collapse occurs, it won't just happen in a day, it'll take weeks of very noticeable degradation.  Like I said there are always alternative methods anyways.  If you don't believe any of this and your entire aim is to reduce as much risk from a financial collapse as possible you can always just setup a routine where once every X number of months you buy X amount of bullion with your paper profits.  You'll most likely find by doing it this way after 5-10 years you'll end up with multiples more physical bullion than you would have otherwise considering the far greater potential for profits and loss minimisation.  

 

 

Even then if minimising bank risk is really one of your primary concerns then gold is purely a defensive asset and is naturally better suited, more so than palladium.  In the end it comes down to compromise, and you're already compromising on defensive strength by picking a more volatile industrial asset in palladium over consuming more gold, so you're already exposing yourself to risk.  From a statistical / probabilitiy point of view there's probably already a higher risk of palladium tanking than the risk of the financial sector tanking anyways, not to mention how with paper it's far far easier to employ various defensive strategies to further reduce risk from market shocks too.  

 

 

Anyways I hope you don't take anything I'm saying the wrong way.  Like you said it all comes down to personal preference in the end and everyone is entitled to their own ideas.  I still think it's great to see everyone here with different ideas though, as it gives everyone the opportunity to see other peoples ideas and to test their own ideas.  At the end of the day testing ideas can only strengthen them.  
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  • 2 months later...

I think Palladium is a good investment as a precious metal. According to new forecasts it is supposed to hit 900 USD/Oz in 2016. Now it is 760. So perhaps it is a good opportunity. Problem with purchase is VAT and high premium. And then not as good

 

But there are ways how to buy palladium for the spot price. I live in the heart of Europe, Slovakia. Recently I purchased few of these 2004 slovakian bimetal coins (Gold + Palladium) for just the price of precious metals contained in the coin. No VAT, no premium for Pd or Au. Just the nett spot price of metals. It contains 2/5 Oz 999 Gold and 2/5 Oz 999 Palladium. Plus as an extra it comes in a nice etui with a certificate (at no additional price). Minted in Kremnica, Slovakia (well known, oldest continuously running worlds mint) as an official commemorative coin. So there is no need to worry about "quality" of the metals. Metals are not melted - outer ring is pure palladium and inner ring pure gold. That means they can be mechanically separated from each other (just a use of "brute force"). But I like the fact that there is also gold. It is a PROOF commemorative coin, but in last years is the value of metals higher than its numismatic value. I consider this coin a bit better investment in palladium than buying a investition palladium bar or palladium coin close to 30 % over spot. But, only time will tell.

 

If anybody is interested in buying one of such coins for just spot price of metals, just send me a PM.

 

47501410.jpg

 

Some informations about the coin: http://www.nbs.sk/en/banknotes-and-coins/slovak-currency/slovak-commemorative-coins/10000sk-gold-and-palladium-coin-commemorating-entry-sr-to-eu

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It was minted back in 2004. Back then "Slovenská koruna" was used as a legal tender. Coins minted these days are in Euros. The nice part is, that when it was minted, the coin cost only 13500 Sk (less than 450 €). So when people sell these coins today for the spot price of metals (about 730 €) they have a nice reason to smile. Pretty good investment (and the coin is PROOF, so the premium was really high on this one).

 

I only started buying these coins recently, because I think they will make a good investment for next year or two.

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I live in Košice. I totally recomend everyone to come visit. I am an Mineral Processing Engineer, so mines, metals and minerals are more than just my hobby. But I have never visited Kremnica. I have been in Banská Štiavnica, which is another medieval precious metals centre - also visited there one of the worlds oldest gold mines, mining museum, ... I have visited a lot of mineral processing and mining sites in Slovakia, some in Czech Republic and Poland, but never Kremnica. I guess I will put it on my list for this summer :lol:

 

My recomendation for visit: Kremnica, Banska Stiavnica, Kosice, Bratislava, Bojnice, Vlkolinec, Cicmany, Vysoke Tatry (mountains) and as many castles as possible (start with Devinsky hrad, Spissky hrad, Trenciansky hrad, ...). Not really a one day trip :D

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I live in Košice. I totally recomend everyone to come visit. I am an Mineral Processing Engineer, so mines, metals and minerals are more than just my hobby. But I have never visited Kremnica. I have been in Banská Štiavnica, which is another medieval precious metals centre - also visited there one of the worlds oldest gold mines, mining museum, ... I have visited a lot of mineral processing and mining sites in Slovakia, some in Czech Republic and Poland, but never Kremnica. I guess I will put it on my list for this summer :lol:

My recomendation for visit: Kremnica, Banska Stiavnica, Kosice, Bratislava, Bojnice, Vlkolinec, Cicmany, Vysoke Tatry (mountains) and as many castles as possible (start with Devinsky hrad, Spissky hrad, Trenciansky hrad, ...). Not really a one day trip :D

Cheers PSVK.

I have been to Slovakia many times, my wife is from SNV so we fly into Kosice often, although Poprad has opened from Luton now so we fly there if the price is good.

Obviously being in SNV, we go to Tatras often, and ski there and Levoca in the winter.

We used to fly to Bratislava, but it's a long train ride to SNV. We also have family in BA and KE.

Spissky hrad is excellent, we also went there in the winter with snow on the ground which was really nice.

We used to fly into Poland when flights were cheap, Rzeszow and Kraków. Went to Oswiecim once too which was very special, and immensely moving. My wife had relatives who were killed there.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.

Stacker since 2013

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Thank you for invitation. However, we got a little off topic.

 

What are your opinions on platinum and palladium as an alternative to gold and silver in future years? Do you think VAT will be ever canceled? What about buy-back. Will it get better, closer to the gold scenario? Or will it still be considered more of a industrial metal?

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What are your opinions on platinum and palladium as an alternative to gold and silver in future years? Do you think VAT will be ever canceled? What about buy-back. Will it get better, closer to the gold scenario? Or will it still be considered more of a industrial metal?

My opinion, platinum & especially palladium will always be "alternative" PM's from a stacking point of view.

They fulfil the requirements, but history & popularity hold them back.

I very much doubt vat will ever be cancelled on them, and buy-back will likely remain static.

This doesn't mean people won't make money from them, if they experience a "Rhodium run" then those that stacked may well be very happy, if they can sell.

Stacker since 2013

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My opinion, platinum & especially palladium will always be "alternative" PM's from a stacking point of view.

They fulfil the requirements, but history & popularity hold them back.

I very much doubt vat will ever be cancelled on them, and buy-back will likely remain static.

This doesn't mean people won't make money from them, if they experience a "Rhodium run" then those that stacked may well be very happy, if they can sell.

 

And that is where I see the problem. With platinum group metals my stack is teoretically worth quite nice money. But there is problem to sell them for spot price and sometimes even under spot price. Just because there is not such a market as for gold. You can sell gold in many pawn shops for a little under spot, or to other people for spot price and sometimes even higher price. This week I sold one of my 1 Oz gold bars. It took less than 24 hours from time of posting the advertisement till the time I had cash from a private buyer in my hand (sold at exactly spot price). But if one needs money immediatelly and it is held in other metal, it can mean selling for a much worse price.

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  • 2 years later...

The US mint is also scheduled to release a 1 ounce palladium liberty  coin sometime this year. I think palladium is moving its way into the precious metals realm - slowly but surely and as it does a lot of the initial fears over owning it will fade as it becomes more readily traded in the market place. 

My biggest gains since last year have come off the few palladium pamp Swiss bars I bought at $600 each.  

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The main driver of the Palladium price is demand from the auto industry, which is heavily debt driven and having some trouble at this moment in time.

The Palladium price approaching all time highs does not leave much room for conservative profit.

Supply is geographically wide, so supply shocks are not likely. I prefer platinum for this additional factor as most supply is centred mostly on South Africa, but again the price is heavily linked to the auto industry so I am not confident there is much to be gained. The other thing going for platinum is that it is NOT approaching its all time high, and historically speaking, used to be a higher price per ounce than gold. If prices revert to historic 'norms' (if they even apply anymore), then gold needs to stay where it is for platinum to move higher, or gold moves lower and platinum stays where it is. Either way, I see it as a hedge, but ultimately, it is a punt. 

Buying Palladium now is also punt on 'to the moon' or 'sky is limit' prices. Anyone who bought in the lows has done well, but personally I feel palladium carries too much risk, nearing its all time high, with the car industry where it is, but everyone is different. Isn't there something we can invest in that isn't approaching all time highs? 

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  • 4 months later...
10 minutes ago, goldfinger999 said:

Thats the point...anything for them to put you off buying the metals they prefer you didnt buy, especially in the EU.  

True. That's why I buy the silver. With limited funds  I have to be practical in ratio's so pd and pt  only account for a very small %. I often think of adding more pd, I'll check out your eBay site.

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The relative price of platinum and palladium has been spotted for some time by metal traders. 

Here is a link that landed in my mailbox last night. 

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4109680-platinum-palladium-spread-divergence-capital-d?

i would say platinum is the metal. Traditionally platinum has been more than gold. Platinum is much rarer than gold. There are traders right now  moving in on the atypical ratios of these metal's prices in 'futures pairs trades'. They sell palladium futures and with the proceeds buy platinum futures contracts. Things revert to the mean. There was an upset when VW allegedly falsified the exhaust emissions data on Golfs being imported in the the US, but these things will settle and things will revert to the mean and the natural ratios of the metals. 

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A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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  • 1 year later...

Sorry to resurrect this thread, it all makes interesting reading.

Pd is still doing well, but dropping a little recently.

Unfortunately most points still valid, not many Pd coins and VAT killing things.

Does anyone else delve into the dark recesses of the forum to see how people's thoughts were and compare them to what actually happened?

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Motor industry looking to swap pd with pt because of cost plus more scrimping.  I would be looking to get out of pd it was only used because if was cheaper.

Motor Manufacturers in the sh-t anyway over production very bad first quarter sales no reason for the price of pd to be this high.  Change over to pt is on its way. 

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