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I am leaving the world of Silver Stacking..............


HighlandTiger

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@HT 

 

i saw in the paper today the euro millions is £120+million tonight 

 

would you go back to stacking silver then? or stick with your gold ;) 

 

jeez how man maples could you get from STG with £120,000,000

 

9,230,769oz / 500oz  = or 18,461 monster boxes (!) 

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@HT 

 

i saw in the paper today the euro millions is £120+million tonight 

 

would you go back to stacking silver then? or stick with your gold ;)

 

jeez how man maples could you get from STG with £120,000,000

 

9,230,769oz / 500oz  = or 18,461 monster boxes (!) 

 

Bugger either, If I win I'm off to the beach...........beach.gifwho cares about gold or silver..........LOL

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My silver stack to date. Interestingly, my stack  also serves as my vault . I am a vault-dweller...ha!; )

Infographic-Silver-41.jpg

 

 

 

 

Actually, the above photo represents the  amount of silver produced in British Columbia in 2013. Here is the link for the infograpghics for the other metals:   http://www.mining.com/web/infographic-a-years-worth-of-resources-in-bc/

 

Cheers,

Luker

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Word. This is why I stopped buying silver too. I only buy gold however I saw a nice gieger 100g bar that I said I would get cost me 80Eur delivered then the postman arrives and asks for another 29Eur for the ol VAT. Coininvest 100Eur for a 100g bar delivered.....no thanks.

............well almost  :D

 

I've been reviewing the reasons why I got into PM's in the first place, and it seems I've let the lure of silver "profits" cloud my judgement.

 

The reason I'm buying PM's is that all my life I've been crap at saving, or put another way I've been absolutely brilliant at spending, (mostly on the kids, grandkids and my various collections), but with 15 or so years to retirement and only a couple of tiny pension pots to my name, I had to do something.

 

I needed something where I could satisfy my spending urges whilst saving at the same time, and PM's seemed to be the ideal answer. The problem for me though is not the buying of the PM's and waiting 10 or 15 years for them to "mature", its the exit strategy. And this is where I am having a problem with Silver. Selling it is going to be a nightmare. You have two choices, you can haul it down to the local bullion dealer in a wheelbarrow, and get a lot less than spot, (but you'll need Silver to almost double in price to make a profit that way) or sell to other collectors or stackers, through forums or ebay. Which means going through the rigmarole of advertising, and packing the items and going to the Post offfice etc etc etc. And it will usually be a small number of items at a time.

 

Now Gold on the other hand, seems to fit my "needs" perfectly. I can get it for about 5% or 6% over spot delivered, sometimes a lot less. Rather than the 15% to 50% that silver costs over spot even at STG. Meaning I need only a small rise in the price of gold to ensure my "savings" make a little extra. I need 1/70th of the space to store my gold, whether it be at home, work or in a safety deposit box, than I would need for silver.

 

Selling it is a piece of cake. Plenty of places will buy for spot price, and all it needs is a phone call or email, and pop a couple of coins in an envelope and by the next day you've money in you bank.

 

Whilst I still will buy a small amount of silver every year, I think the bulk of my money will be ploughed into gold.

 

Sovereigns here I come. ......................I'm officially a gold bug now....

 

:D

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If silver becomes very valuable why do people think you would get significantly less than spot or that it will be difficult to sell?

 

Genuine question, I guess I assumed gold/jewellery/coin dealers would buy it for 95% of spot like with gold

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I don't think well get significantly less than spot value. The problem with silver is that we are paying up to 100% OVER spot value already. Meaning silver has to increase by a much larger percentage than gold just to hit our original buying prices. If we could buy silver coins at say 5% over spot las easy as we can with gold coins there wouldn't be a issue. But we cant

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If silver was £100 per oz maybe you could buy coins for £105. 

 

Currently 5% of £10.76 might not be enough of a spread to cover manufacturing cost, dealer's profit, deliveries to dealers etc

Ah but dealers buying silver off of you aren't interested in those things, so until silver does become a £100 an oz then its a mute point really :(

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  • 3 weeks later...

I had some free time just now and decided to put a table together calculating the returns on silver and gold purchased in year x and sold today to a dealer for spot.  For silver I would not want to sell to a dealer because the original premium is a lot to lose but if you needed to liquidate it quickly or you just have so much of it, then it may be the only option.

 

I have added an extra column for silver assuming that each coin is sold for £18 net.

 

 

I have used today's spot (close enough anyway).

I have taken the spot price from the Bullionbypost chart for the 1st Jan of each year.

 

For silver I have added a 30% premium.  I think this is a good average because the cheapest form in the UK are bars which carry a small premium then VAT at 20% (yes, VAT has changed over the years but we'll use 20% for consistency).  For coins it would be from Germany which currently have maples and phillys with the smallest premium at around 25%.  Add on 5% for postage etc or we could use it as a cost average over several types of coins.

 

For Gold I have used 6%.  I think this is a good number since 1oz coins can be bought for that or less.  New sovereigns might cost a little more but previous years and used coins can be had for maybe 4%+ delivery (HGM) or 5% (Atkinsons on 2+).

 

post-94-0-07672700-1415478739_thumb.jpg

 

After edit.............

 

I should add.  The premiums as a % when the PMs were cheap, cheap would have been higher.  But for simplicity I haven't accounted for it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update on my silver stacking methodology. No doubt it will change again over the coming years. I'm still worried about about the exit strategy, but I think I've now got it covered. Cheap and cheerful silver bullion is relatively easy to shift, and after seeing STG buy back price, which varies but can be around 10% over spot and speaking to some UK dealers, I think I can get a similar buy back price in the UK locally. 

 

It is the premium silver that I think will be more difficult and time consuming to shift. So unless this forum rises to about 10,000 members, I'm going to have to go down the online auction route and all that entails. Ebay and Paypal are a nightmare, (and my current issues with paypal playing silly buggers and holding on to withdrawals for up to 72 hours before they stick it in my bank, I want to have as little as possible to do with selling on ebay)

 

My current storage methods involve putting the coins into holders and into albums. This was mainly to do with prevention of milk spots or toning. But as I'm not wanting to go down the route of keeping the coins pristine in order to sell on ebay, then I don't need to be so excessive in my storage costs. After all, both holders and albums cost money. And unless coins come in capsules, I can't warrant the additional cost of them either. Obviously my aim is to keep costs down to a minimum, and therefore profits to a maximum.

 

So I've decided that my aim is 250 oz's of silver per year.Silver to Go will get the bulk of my orders, providing of course they continue with their current range and prices.  But I'll be buying in tubes. So depending on whether coins come in 20's or 25 to a tube, it will allow me to purchase a tube of the following every year. Brits, Lunar Brits, Philly, Maple, Noah's Ark, Libertad, Eagle, Koala, Kook, Panda. The rest of my cash will go on the good golden stuff.

 

I may get the odd extra tube of something, like the Canadian birds, Aussie crocs etc, if silver is cheap enough and I've got some spare cash.

 

This will all of course have to start next year with the 2015's, I do have just over 250 ounces for this calender year, although it's a mix of bullion, premium and scrap. But with spot prices so low at the moment, although I would like to shift all my non bullion of the above mentioned coins, I may not get my money back, and I'm in no rush to start my new stacking regime. There is plenty of time to get the 2015 coins :)

 

But I am going to treat myself every now and then. I'm going to try and pick up sov and half sov proofs when bargains can be had, (or if bullion dealers send you proof coins when you are expecting mixed bullion, it's happened to me twice now), and on the Silver front, I'm going to keep my collecting gene ticking over with RAM proof silver kangaroos, and the Aussie Stock horses. If I stick to those two I can have a bit of fun hunting them down at cheap prices. without affecting my main reason for being here, stacking gold and silver. :D  

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So you're going to buy everything other than lunar.

 

I'm going to get the lunar brits, mainly for the CGT aspect. With regard to the Perth mint lunars, unless I can get them at a price comparable with the coins I've mentioned above, then in order to get rid I've got to do the ebay route which I want to avoid. However if the price comes below the cost of a panda, (and I think the panda will always be the limit of what I want to pay for a coin), then I will probably pick up a tube of them.  

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'I am leaving the world of silver stacking... apart from buying a tube of each of the 10 most popular coins, every year'

 

Whatever you say, boss :)

 

Really funny, but he is right, and this contradictions will just appear to any of us when thinking a loud.

In fact he is just telling that he leaves "hardcore silver stacking", that he will discard premium/proof collecting, he will reduce silver to a fraction and only "low premium", and that he will increase very much his gold ratio.

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'I am leaving the world of silver stacking... apart from buying a tube of each of the 10 most popular coins, every year'

 

Whatever you say, boss :)

 

LOL, when I started all this in April, I had no intention at all to buy any gold whatsoever. Now my aim is to use about 80-90% of my PM money on Gold and 10-20% on Silver. A drastic reduction from my 100% silver........ ;)  

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Whilst I still will buy a small amount of silver every year, I think the bulk of my money will be ploughed into gold.

 

 

 

This was in my original post, so I haven't deviated from it. My PM budget will allow me to buy 250oz of silver a year, without making much of a dent in my overall spend on gold. But we all have our budgets that we need to stick to. Some people like Ares, who is a student, has a small budget at the moment, which is understandable, Keithoil is currently earning more than the Sheiks of Dubai, so is able to spend a little bit more. I'm somewhere in the middle. But you certainly couldn't call me a silver stacker...... :D  

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