I am leaving the world of Silver Stacking..............

[BaldyBob]

.

[Keithoil]

Gold Gold Gold.....

 

Easier to store, Easier to sell, Easier to buy, and Easier to dispose of.

 

I do not need to go on any more.

[jazzman]

Hey there Highland, your story matches mine, i initially got into PM because i kept trying to save up cash for a rainy day. The problem came when i would be feeling bored or down i would dip into it and end up spending it all. I knew i needed a barrier between me and my money. My initial thought was gold but after reading about silver and the potential for it to rise in price in the future due to increasing demand in industry and the fact it is consumed and discarded after use convinced me  that it was the ultimate investment so i began buying silver. Now this might still turn out to be true and silver may indeed go to the moon in the future, however after a while and a lot of thought i realised that if i wanted some cash to be released before silver skyrocketed i was in danger of losing quite a bit of my initial outlay. As you say gold is much easier to get your money back if you should need it quickly without too much fuss. Of course i may well be kicking myself in ten or fifteen years when silver goes up to £1000 an ounce but the sensible side of me has pushed me into buying sovereigns and half sovereigns. However i still buy an occasional bit of silver in between gold purchases just in case silver does go mad one day, but i only use disposable income for those buys and not my life savings money,that goes on the gold.

[Pete]

Just food for thought -

The current gold / silver ratio is over 70 right now and maybe 60 is more rational.

Gold is "relatively" cheap currently by recent historic data so that would suggest silver has much more upside in the short term.

Either a good time to add silver and perhaps not such a great time to be selling.

[jazzman]

Hi Pete, i agree completely with your thoughts on this, my only problem is that with vat on silver and then a sellers premium added it would seem to me that silver would have a lot of work to do just to recover your money let alone start making any sort of profit. Please do not get me wrong i am in no way saying what is right or wrong merely what i feel is right for me, i suppose there are many factors to consider when choosing wether to go the gold or silver route, such as age, if you are a risk taker or if you are a saver, investor or collector, it is horses for courses i guess.If i lived in a country where there was no vat on silver i might be more inclined to go down the silver route, i also find the small size to value ratio appealing with gold, but as i say that is just my own opinion.

[Danny-boy]

Hi Pete, i agree completely with your thoughts on this, my only problem is that with vat on silver and then a sellers premium added it would seem to me that silver would have a lot of work to do just to recover your money let alone start making any sort of profit.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but it sounds like what you are saying is that silver would have to do a lot of work for your purchase price to be matched by spot price.

I think people read too much into spot, there are a whole bunch of costs to get that raw silver to your door in the form of a coin.

[Shamatti]

Just food for thought -

The current gold / silver ratio is over 70 right now and maybe 60 is more rational.

Gold is "relatively" cheap currently by recent historic data so that would suggest silver has much more upside in the short term.

Either a good time to add silver and perhaps not such a great time to be selling.

 

Looking at the maths long term, 30 is more rational. It was 16 for most of history. If you look at the ratio of gold to silver being mined, and the percentage of silver which is irrevocably consumed by industry, It is much rarer than the 70 - 1 ratio would imply.

 

For a percentage gain on you money when the PM prices rationalise, assuming gold does not tumble in price, I think silver is still the better bet.

 

Gold has  a lot of advantages as described by many on here, I can't fault your logic at all. I also have a reasonable gold stack, and will be adding to it now and then. But for both SHTF planning, and long term investments, I would not want to be out of silver at all.

[Keithoil]

All the quotes within this topic make sense, it is simply down to personal finances, your own feelings, and market trends of what you believe is right for you at this time, as to the path you take.

 

I still believe in silver, but I will continue to buy gold.

 

So preeeease leave some sovereigns for poor old me.

[SilverPirate]

Gold to be sold,Silver to be bold.What ever is accumulated over our saving years will come in handy,I agree gold of the two is more liquid to dispose of.

One day boys and girls it will pay off,and oh won't we be smug B.......s.

It feels nice knowing i got a stack somewhere.I would like more gold too,other priorities at the moment but i will add some gold when i can.

Good call HT.

[jazzman]

Forgive me if I am wrong, but it sounds like what you are saying is that silver would have to do a lot of work for your purchase price to be matched by spot price.

I think people read too much into spot, there are a whole bunch of costs to get that raw silver to your door in the form of a coin.

Hi Danny, not quite,all i mean is i need to at least to be able to recover most of my money if i should need to and i feel that that would be harder to do especially short term with silver. To me PM is just an alternative to keeping cash in a tin with a small hope that it might gain some value over time.I am not against silver though as i still believe it may have the potential to increase in value possibly more than gold in the future.maybe if i did not think there was any chance of me needing my savings for 20 or so years i might consider the silver route a bit more.Hope i did not come across as criticizing anyone who is all for silver, that was not my intention, i am always respectful of someone who may have a different opinion to mine.

[Danny-boy]

Hi Danny, not quite,all i mean is i need to at least to be able to recover most of my money if i should need to and i feel that that would be harder to do especially short term with silver. To me PM is just an alternative to keeping cash in a tin with a small hope that it might gain some value over time.I am not against silver though as i still believe it may have the potential to increase in value possibly more than gold in the future.maybe if i did not think there was any chance of me needing my savings for 20 or so years i might consider the silver route a bit more.Hope i did not come across as criticizing anyone who is all for silver, that was not my intention, i am aleays respectful of someone who may have a different opinion to mine.

Not at all, a very good response.

Liquidation is certainly more difficult with silver, I agree.

[StackemHigh]

Silver is a hobby for me and i buy and sell silver now and again to people i know in the real (Not online) world. Collections etc

 

Gold is where i've started to store real money.

 

Most of us here know silver is a bet and gold a wealth preserver.

[jazzman]

Hi stack'em high, yes i think this is where sometimes people have problems on the internet , we are all different with different reasons for what we do.i have seen this on many of the you tube videos to do with silver stacking in particular where someone is showing there silver stack and the next thing you know there is a nasty comment about how when the economy collapses their silver will be no use to them. The funny thing being that the stacker never mentioned anything to do with SHTF.That one always makes me chuckle.

[Shamatti]

 

I still believe in silver, but I will continue to buy gold.

 

I think this line sums it up perfectly!

 

I'll continue to buy both!

[HighlandTiger]

It looks like my early morning musings has turned into a full blown debate of Gold v Silver.    

 

Just to clarify things on my part. Silver is not off the menu with me, but instead of it being the starter, the main course and a bit of the pudding, it is now just the little mint chocolate you get with your end of meal coffee. 

 

I'll still pick up silver where i can at spot or nearly spot, at bootfairs, antique markets / fairs etc (and the odd ebay auction if MH hasn't got there first   )

 

But from now on it's gold all the way man...........

 

[Keithoil]

It looks like my early morning musings has turned into a full blown debate of Gold v Silver.    

 

Just to clarify things on my part. Silver is not off the menu with me, but instead of it being the starter, the main course and a bit of the pudding, it is now just the little mint chocolate you get with your end of meal coffee. 

 

I'll still pick up silver where i can at spot or nearly spot, at bootfairs, antique markets / fairs etc (and the odd ebay auction if MH hasn't got there first   )

 

But from now on it's gold all the way man...........

 

 

In that case I need to back up to Edinburgh and buy some more yellow metal soon.

[Keithoil]

I think HT you have cast a stone of doubt in peoples minds.

 

Now the seed is planted sit back and watch it grow, just tending to it now and again.

 

Me, in November should be a STG order for around 60-80 ozs depends if they have the new Panda in.

[Luker2]

Hi stack'em high, yes i think this is where sometimes people have problems on the internet , we are all different with different reasons for what we do.i have seen this on many of the you tube videos to do with silver stacking in particular where someone is showing there silver stack and the next thing you know there is a nasty comment about how when the economy collapses their silver will be no use to them. The funny thing being that the stacker never mentioned anything to do with SHTF.That one always makes me chuckle.

Came across this article today regarding that very topic (when SHTF ):

 

http://thewealthwatchman.com/silver-myths-smashed-pt-5-the-4-little-letters-some-use-to-dismiss-silver/

 

Cheers,

Luker

 

Your Strength Gives me Strength

 

As we finish up this Silver Myth-Smashing series, I’d like to say how I’ve been amazed over the past several weeks to hear so many personal accounts from folks who’ve been inspired to buy even more silver.  To read account after account from shield brothers, charging headlong into High-Frequency-Traded firestorms, and inflicting even more silver casualties upon our common foe, is a most refreshing thing.

I’ve been inspired by you all, and I salute each and every one of you.

The 4 Little Letters

Sometimes it’s hard to know what folks are thinking.  I don’t just mean the folks that keep things to themselves, either.  I mean those that do alot of talking, and still don’t say much.

 

I’ve had a great many conversations about silver with almost every sort of person you could think of: the hipster, the upper-middle class, the wealthy, kids, the elderly.  They all react somewhat differently to silver, because they all have differing ideas about what silver is, and therefore, differing expectations of what it can do for them.

Usually, when I’m done talking to someone about silver, there are many thoughtful, intelligent questions that come up, but one particular question about silver, that occurs on a fairly regular basis, is a bit frustrating to hear.  In fact, its recurrence is so common, that no silver-myth list would be complete without it.

 

Let’s see if you’ve heard it too:

“So that’s why it’s a good idea to own some silver, there are just too many uncertainties in our world today, and you need something rock-solid that you can rely on.”

“That’s all very good, Watchman, but who do you think will really want silver….”

“When the Sh** hits the fan(SHTF)?”

Yes! The classic SHTF card: don’t leave home without it!   It’s found in almost as many places as Visa or Mastercard!  And for some strange reason, many ‘businesses’ still accept it!

This dreaded cocktail is often meant to negate any and every reasonable argument for buying silver.

 

 The Characters Who Play the Card

 

First off, it’s important to understand that there are many reasons why this card is played.  Not all of them are bad, either!  

What I’ve discovered, is that those who usually play this card fall into 3 different categories:

The Rainbow Hunters: Far from being a skeptic, these folks are infested with a cynicism so pervasive, that they like to to see if they can poke holes in anything.  It’s the very air they breathe. You get the feeling with those lonely souls, that they’d be busy mortally wounding rainbows or stabbing lovely sunsets if they could.  If you can tell that the person who just played the SHTF card is one of these “rainbow hunters”, it’s actually best to simply cut them loose, and let them go.  There isn’t a real conversation to be had with these people, and you’ll be wasting your time.

The Preppers: These folks maintain a healthy amount of skepticism for the most part.  They distrust everything the government, the media, and conventional opinion tells them.  I find discussion with this group very easy, and very amiable.  They usually play the SHTF card, because they genuinely want to know how silver will help them in their emergency planning.  You should always patiently engage these people.

The Vault Dwellers:  These folks are Preppers on steriods.  If you’re one of the folks who was “born ready”, or chosen, to rise up as a hero in a post-apocalyptic world, and lead the scattered remnants of humanity to freedom after a nuclear fall-out, or over a dreaded robot army, or hordes of flesh-eating zombies….then you might be a “Vault-Dweller”.

These folks play the SHTF card for generally honorable purposes, and while this category of people might be arguably over-prepared, they can certainly be steered in the right direction regarding silver.

 

 Trouble with the Term

Remember, the biggest problem with this acronym(SHTF) is that it’s so general it can literally mean anything to anybody.  SHTF is as broad a term as the word “mother”.  If I asked each of you what the word “mother” meant to you, I bet you could give me pages of definitions, all good and all having their place, but with each person saying very different things.

SHTF could literally mean anything from this:

 

To this:

And that’s a problem, because, if this person is to be convinced of their need to acquire silver, they need to be convinced that it can handle the specific outcome that they’re preparing for.

So, it behooves any silver warrior, when they hear “SHTF”, to first ask the person who said it:

“What does SHTF mean to you?”

If you don’t do this first, then you’ll likely be talking past each other.

We must avoid talking past them.  This person needs to know that silver was born to thrive in SHTF scenarios!

So let’s address a few of the most common outcomes a person may have in mind when they speak the acronym “SHTF”.

 

Government Default

 

Does anyone remember the ugly bond default that occurred earlier this year in Argentina?  The poor Argentine people have been victims of a wicked and inept government, time after time.

They don’t have to be told by the Watchman, that their savings are in grave danger.  After all, it was just a few years ago that millions of people there had their pensions and life savings seized by government officials, in order to pay government debts!

There have been runs on their banks, on their sovereign bonds, and on their currency, multiple times, and now, due to their recent default, history is repeating itself.

Just look at the Argentine Peso’s value against U.S. dollars in 2014:

Ladies and gentlemen, anyone holding Pesos in 2014 has been wiped out!  Again!  

In fact, if you held your wealth in Pesos in 2008, and kept it in Pesos until now, then you are down roughly 75% in 6 years!  

Post-default though, you’re down nearly 50%, in just a few months!

That is a bloodbath, and remember: Argentina is considered one of the wealthier, more stable countries of South America!

For tens of millions of people in Argentina, the S*** has definitely hit the fan!

Awful!

But…..what if you had held your wealth in silver, instead of the Peso?

Hmm, well, let’s check!

Holy Toledo!

If you’d held your savings in silver instead, during this SHTF scenario, you still have 25% more Pesos in spite of the intense price-rigging action since late summer! Impressive!

Furthermore, any silver ounce you’d decided to swap out for Pesos during the June/July Silver spike, would have reaped you a whopping 50% more Pesos than you could’ve acquired just 7 months earlier!  Unreal!

Note well how comex silver is only down roughly 25% since the price top in 2011, as well. Silver is holding its own in South America.

Silver has stood in the gap as a mighty shield for anyone who entrusted their hard-earned wealth to it in old Argentina.  I’d also like to say this to any shield brother living in Argentina: if you own silver, don’t cast that armor away right now, as I feel, the most important protection you’ll need is still yet to come.

Who wished they’d owned silver in this SHTF scenario?  Millions, that’s who!

 

Bank Seizures

 

Shield brothers all know well, that cash and wealth stashed in the banking system is anything but safe. Harrowing tales of U.S. “bank holidays” of the 1930′s, still linger in our minds, like dreadful ghost stories we heard around a campfire.  The problem is: these ghost stories are real!

Our bank holiday story was sadly and recently repeated in an unusual way in Cyprus, where E.U. leaders decided to sacrifice millions of Cypriot depositers, instead of the insolvent Cypriot banking system, and by extension, the entire, warped E.U. project.

Millionaires went to sleep one evening, thinking their life fortunes were safe, and woke up to this:

Depositors, who’d always thought that their deposited cash was theirs, were shocked to discover they were merely “unsecured creditors”, and were literally last in line to receive their own currency.

What about safety deposit boxes?  They were trapped within a locked building, within a locked-up financial system, untouchable.  Anyone who had their wealth in a banker’s lock box, was treated the same way: an “unsecured creditor”.

Once again, the S*** had definitely hit the fan.

For anyone who owned silver and gold in Cyprus however, and stored it safely outside that banking system?  They escaped the worst of that fall-out.  

Sure, they still had problems, but they didn’t have to wonder each day, while standing in those lines, if they’d just lived to see their family’s generational financial security die with them.

They didn’t have to settle for receiving worthless bank shares in exchange for their cash and valuables.

Owners of silver maintained far greater wealth, greater control, and most of all, greater peace of mind throughout that fiasco, than those who owned no silver.

Who within Cyprus had wished they’d flown into the safety of silver’s arms?  Danged near everyone, that’s who!

 

Hyper-Inflation

 

While the words “hyper” and “inflation” are the two worst words you could seek to combine, not all hyper-inflations are created equal.  One of the worst, textbook cases occurred in 20th century Germany.

After the German government determined to pay off its war debts with inflated currency, every single person, living within that country was on the chopping block.  For 4 years, the Deutsche Mark, one of the strongest, most stable currencies in the world, became an unholy terror to any soul unfortunate enough to own it.

It began slowly, at first, and then spiraled quickly out of control.  Despite the best efforts of the Reichstag and Reichsbank, to contain the panic, they could not stem the tide of the German masses rejecting the Mark, in a most utterly, reasonable unison.

Literal billionaires, whose aristocratic wealth had lasted for centuries, were shocked, as everyone else around them suddenly become “billionaires” too!  Vast fortunes were destroyed.  Poverty and desperation reached unheard of levels.

 

 

Remember, Germany was a “1st world power”, and so what transpired was completely unlooked for, and unimaginable….until it happened.

An unthinkable sh** scenario had just hit the fan, in the most prosperous country on the European continent.

But, what about those who held silver?

Let’s take a look!

Here’s a chart showing what the price of silver commanded in Deutsche Marks during that 4 year timeframe:

Take a good, hard look at that: in 4 short years, silver went from 12 Deutsche Marks, to 543,750,000,000 Deutsche Marks!  

One silver coin in your hand, in 1923 Germany was more sought after than a castle of these:

By the end of the epoch, there were accounts of 1 gold ounce, or a handful of silver ounces, acquiring prime real estate in downtown Berlin.

Who wanted silver when the SHTF in Weimar Germany?  Everybody and the milkman, that’s who!

 

Conclusion

 

There are many other scenarios, in which silver thrives in, that I haven’t mentioned here(war, food shortages, etc), but at this point you get the picture.  SHTF is not a ‘trump card’ to be played to dismiss silver.  It’s also as general a term as one could possibly imagine.  In the minds of your audience, it could mean anything from bad inflation to aliens from outer space.

When people play this card, it’s best not to do the talking.  Ask questions of these people, and let them do the talking!  

Find out specifically what tail-risks they have in mind, and then assure them that silver is good for every, single one of them! Let them know in plain English, that no “emergency preparedness kit” is complete without silver in it!

As we’ve already plainly said in this series: silver isn’t a magic wand, or a doomsday bunker.

We all know what silver is(everyone say it out aloud with me): Silver is money!

Thusly, if you think that, despite any likelihood of chaotic scenarios in our world, human beings will still have some wealth to store, and will still need mediums of exchange with which to release that wealth on the other side, then silver(and gold) is a fantastic idea for most SHTF situations you could think of.

Ask SHTF’ers to humbly remember: that they’re not the first person to have lived through a really bad outcome.  Before their time, there have been countless wars(including world wars), famines, pestilences, diseases, and currency crises. Right?

Yet silver is still here shining brightly on the other side of all of them!

Preppers and “vault dwellers” need to understand that silver and prepping is a match made in the highest heavens!  Preppers, you’ll love silver, because you have lots in common with it!    Like you, silver is a survivor!

It has been through the toughest times, and comes out shining brightest of all.  It’s actually been the good times that have made its manipulation easier for the bankers.  The enemy has tarnished its reputation for a time, but silver will not be denied.

I hope all of you have enjoyed this series on silver myths, and realize by now that of all the arguments our enemies(or just curious folks) bring up, none of them should cause you to doubt yourself.

My brothers, don’t second-guess your actions. Keep pressing onward, keep the pressure on the enemy, no matter where he takes the price.

Remember, we live in an empire of lies, where truth is treason.

Silver is the ultimate monetary truth, and each of us is proudly committing silver treason!

Whether you realize it or not, humanity acting to commit “silver treason” together, is the globalists’ worst nightmare.

I don’t know about you, but I fully intend on standing fast, and giving those criminals plenty of sleepless nights!

Who’s with me?!

 

P.S.- To every single shield brother out there, who has purchased silver or gold from the ads in this HQ, or has donated even one dollar(or ounce) to this Watchman’s efforts: THANK YOU!  Your generous contributions, coupled with the goodwill of other gurus in the PM blogosphere, has made the exponential growth that our Truth HQ is currently experiencing, even possible!  You have my sincerest gratitude!  

Enjoy the Watchman’s insights?  Want to join one of the fastest-growing precious metal brotherhoods on the web?  Then be sure to enlist here  as a shield brother, to guarantee you never miss out on any of the action!

[HighlandTiger]

Came across this article today regarding that very topic (when SHTF ):

 

http://thewealthwatchman.com/silver-myths-smashed-pt-5-the-4-little-letters-some-use-to-dismiss-silver/

 

Cheers,

Luker

 

 

 

I’ve had a great many conversations about silver with almost every sort of person you could think of: the hipster, the upper-middle class, the wealthy, kids, the elderly.  They all react somewhat differently to silver, because they all have differing ideas about what silver is, and therefore, differing expectations of what it can do for them.

 

 

I’ve had a great many conversations about silver with almost every sort of person you could think of: the hipster (Shamatti), the upper-middle class (Simon13, well he does live in a castle) the wealthy (Got to be Keithoil), kids (Ares), the elderly (well that's me and the Cornishfarmer ).  They all react somewhat differently to silver, because they all have differing ideas about what silver is, and therefore, differing expectations of what it can do for them.

 

Yep, the gangs all here on this very forum   

[Danny-boy]

I think HT you have cast a stone of doubt in peoples minds.

One of those people is me.

I must admit I have never really wanted to own gold, but it's moving forward in my priorities.

I'd really like to hit my silver target first, but that's a way away and I'm getting restless.

[watchesandwhisky]

I think golds extra liquidity and the fact you can easily sell for spot to a shop for instant cash makes it a real winner, but also lets not forget the reasons why we chose silver in the first place:)  both have a place in a stack and for me personally Id like to get my stack to about 50/50 in value terms

[jazzman]

One of those people is me.

I must admit I have never really wanted to own gold, but it's moving forward in my priorities.

I'd really like to hit my silver target first, but that's a way away and I'm getting restless.

From what i have read of your always interesting posts Danny i was under the impression that you were more a collector (nothing wrong with that)than a saver/stacker/investor, are you thinking of gold as a collector or a saver?

[Danny-boy]

From what i have read of your always interesting posts Danny i was under the impression that you were more a collector (nothing wrong with that)than a saver/stacker/investor, are you thinking of gold as a collector or a saver?

Hi Jazzman. I planned to stack at first, but I guess I'm a collector at heart.

It is still an investment in my eyes, just one that will be a nightmare to sell when the time comes. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it [emoji1]

I think gold would be more of a saving method, but I know what I'm like. First fractional gold lunar, and I'll need the set.

I always had half an eye on a GSR swap, but I feel that may be a way off.

Anyway in answer to your question, the answer is clearly "not a clue".

All I know is, it's money I would have spent on beer and cars so I'm ahead on that game already.

[Cointreau]

Excellent article from the Wealth Watchman. I've lost none of my enthusiasm for silver and I'm having no part of this onset of silver pessimism.

[Keithoil]

I think a forum name change is hand now, "TheSilverForum and now tipping towards Gold".