Queens Beast Gold Coin Premium

[Frenchie]

35 minutes ago, Cornishfarmer said:

@Frenchie

http://www.goldline.co.uk/bullionCoins.jsp?coinId=278&yp=246

Thank you, but unfortunately, no Griffin available

[Cornishfarmer]

24 minutes ago, Frenchie said:

Thank you, but unfortunately, no Griffin available

Sorry my balls up looked at the unicorn 

[FlorinCollector]

30 minutes ago, Frenchie said:

Thank you, but unfortunately, no Griffin available

https://www.bnt.org.uk/the-queens-beasts-2017-the-griffin-one-ounce-fine-gold-coin

Found it here but have no clue if this website is reliable. 

[Frenchie]

Thank you JCRJM, 

I am also suspicious about them as I remember how they behaved with the hype around the sales of the proof sovereign  series last year  

[FoolzGold]

Indeed looks like premiums on 1oz gold Griffins just jumped the last few days here in France. Went from 22% to 38% on my regular site (and GSbe shows them out of stock). Premiums on QBs now : Bull 5%, Unicorn 5.3%, Dragon 6%, Griffin 22%->38%, Lion 40%.

[kimchi]

52 minutes ago, FoolzGold said:

Indeed looks like premiums on 1oz gold Griffins just jumped the last few days here in France. Went from 22% to 38% on my regular site (and GSbe shows them out of stock). Premiums on QBs now : Bull 5%, Unicorn 5.3%, Dragon 6%, Griffin 22%->38%, Lion 40%.

That's a huge amount on the last two. Do folk think it's justified simply by supply and demand? It's a massive leap since two weeks ago - an overdue price reduction or taking the mick?

It's going to stop new folk joining the series, surely?

 

[xthomasx]

Here in Germany the bullion quarter ounce Beasts are at or slightly above 300€ which is close to 280 pounds. All of them. 

Full ounces are a different matter... 

[Pampfan]

In the USA - pinehurst coins has all the 1/4 ounce beasts for about $376 each - about $40 over spot each which is about the same premium they are selling all their other 1/4 ounce gold coins. 

From watching this series from the beginning my pricing on the 1/4 ounce is as follows:

ms70 lion - haven’t seen any for sale in over a year on eBay - probably sell for $500 to $550.

ms70 griffin - one sold on eBay about six months ago - probably worth around $800 plus.

ms70 dragon - still available - $500 (pinehurst has them with a best offer option - probably can get it for $475)

ms70 bull - on eBay right now $460

ms70 unicorn - still available $500-MCM

ms69’s - spot plus $50 for all except the griffin, which seems to go for spot +100 if you can find it.

 

 

 

[kimchi]

4 minutes ago, Pampfan said:

ms69’s - spot plus $50 for all except the griffin, which seems to go for spot +100 if you can find it.

A very interesting post on US prices, Thanks!

I'm confused about this last part though. You say that the beasts are priced at spot +$40 and yet a graded MS69 (apart from the griffin) is only $10 more? Over here it would also carry the grading cost plus an additional premium for coins it's very hard to get a 69 on, imho. If this is correct, and knowing that some of the US came late to these (and indeed were quite an unexpected roaring success, hence the lack of early coins at NGC) I would guess mostly only the better examples made it over to the US, and as such the 69s are way undervalued and a great bargain.

An NGC 69 Lion or Griffin at only $50 over spot?  Don't think twice if you can get them for that!

[Pampfan]

@kimchi

when the beasts were originally released - pinehurst had/has thousands of the 1/4 ounce lion + griffin, etc. they were all in original tubes and in monster boxes - when I graded mine - which I bought from pinehurst and other us dealers - they  all graded ms69 by ngc, from that I conclude that the quality of the coins were/are just as good as the ones they are producing today. 

My value of an ngc graded ms69 is based on what I have seen in the USA. U.K.  pricing is quite different I recon.

has anyone been following the prices of these coins in the U.K?

 

[FoolzGold]

For info, and to go with the 1 Oz margins I quoted above, from the same seller here in France (acheter-or-argent.fr) 1/4 Oz gold QB margins are now:
Bull 16.67% ; Unicorn 16.67% ; Dragon 17.67% ; Griffon 20.17% ; Lion 21.18%

[kimchi]

32 minutes ago, Pampfan said:

@kimchi

when the beasts were originally released - pinehurst had/has thousands of the 1/4 ounce lion + griffin, etc. they were all in original tubes and in monster boxes - when I graded mine - which I bought from pinehurst and other us dealers - they  all graded ms69 by ngc, from that I conclude that the quality of the coins were/are just as good as the ones they are producing today. 

My value of an ngc graded ms69 is based on what I have seen in the USA. U.K.  pricing is quite different I recon.

has anyone been following the prices of these coins in the U.K?

 

So these were first releases of the first coins? Doesn't make sense from a UK perspective because on here it looked like US folks didn't take big to these until after the Griffin (which then had a knock-on effect for other British coins like the Sov).

The NGC pop reports also don't show big grading on the early two coins (haven't looked at the third) compared to popularity now. Many (the majority?) here were so poor they weren't worth grading, and often seen as sale value for spot at best. Who is going to pay for a 65 Griffin?

But, like I say, if it's only $10 more as you say for graded examples at MS69 compared to raw bullion you have a crazy gap in the market, the dealers are nuts, and I would certainly be taking full advantage of it as long as it lasts!

[Pampfan]

@kimchiI agree it doesn't make sense, but from what I recall in 2016 - even on the forum - the lion was a difficult coin to find - there was a thread about this in which I posted that Pinehurst had em and a lot of them, and @Numistackerdid a big buy of them to circulate to other forum members.

Does anyone else remember this? 

[kimchi]

1 minute ago, Pampfan said:

@kimchiI agree it doesn't make sense, but from what I recall in 2016 - even on the forum - the lion was a difficult coin to find - there was a thread about this in which I posted that Pinehurst had em and a lot of them, and @Numistackerdid a big buy of them to circulate to other forum members.

Does anyone else remember this? 

You are very likely right mate, I wasn't on here in 2016. What I picked up on (rightly or wrongly) last year is that the US caught onto British coins in general largely after the success of the Griffin following the Lion (which then carried on into other British coins, particularly the Sov). I thought that the Lion definitely took the US by surprise, but they were a little more prepared for the Griffin.

I stand to be corrected on all of this!

All I can say for sure is that if the Lion at MS69 is only a further $10 over spot than a raw coin buy as many as you can!!!

[Pampfan]

3 minutes ago, kimchi said:

All I can say for sure is that if the Lion at MS69 is only a further $10 over spot than a raw coin buy as many as you can!!!

Agreed,  after thinking about it - $50 over spot is probably a little too low - maybe around $60 is more of a reasonable range if you can get a raw coin for $40 over spot.  But I have not seen any for sale in 69 or 70 grades in a while. Lets see if any come up what they go for.

All this talk about graded beasts makes me want to get some raw ones to submit for grading?

[CosmikDebris]

2 minutes ago, Pampfan said:

All this talk about graded beasts makes me want to get some raw ones to submit for grading?

A little off topic, but typically how much does grading cost?

[fehk2001]

2 hours ago, kimchi said:

A very interesting post on US prices, Thanks!

I'm confused about this last part though. You say that the beasts are priced at spot +$40 and yet a graded MS69 (apart from the griffin) is only $10 more? Over here it would also carry the grading cost plus an additional premium for coins it's very hard to get a 69 on, imho. If this is correct, and knowing that some of the US came late to these (and indeed were quite an unexpected roaring success, hence the lack of early coins at NGC) I would guess mostly only the better examples made it over to the US, and as such the 69s are way undervalued and a great bargain.

An NGC 69 Lion or Griffin at only $50 over spot?  Don't think twice if you can get them for that!

I am good to u am I  

[kimchi]

On ‎08‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 17:13, Pampfan said:

Agreed,  after thinking about it - $50 over spot is probably a little too low - maybe around $60 is more of a reasonable range if you can get a raw coin for $40 over spot. 

I would say $40 over the raw coin easy, so if an ungraded example is spot plus $40 then spot plus $80. It'll be interesting to watch this one (as a holder of a 69 Griffin and Lion!).

On ‎08‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 17:13, Pampfan said:

All this talk about graded beasts makes me want to get some raw ones to submit for grading?

I don't know why it sounds like so many of the best early examples got to America (scratching my head here!) but you would not feel this way if you were in the UK lol, so many of the early coins were treated like trash by the Mint if not some dealers as well, I would not grade one of these beasties myself (because I cannot afford to buy a tube where one *might* get a 69, which was the reality of the situation)!

On ‎08‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 17:17, CosmikDebris said:

A little off topic, but typically how much does grading cost?

Without postage to and fro I graded four coins with Heritage London in February and it was £16.50 each. The more you do in the same tier (classification) the cheaper it gets  That is the price for members (you can check out membership prices on the NGC website) if you want to submit directly. Effectively Heritage are using their own membership to help you grade your coins at membership rates + 20% VAT.

[kimchi]

8 minutes ago, fehk2001 said:

I am good to u am I  

You are very good to me kind Mr Rabbit, I still feed my family from the 'extra food' you sent me with the machine a few weeks ago

[Lowlow]

Sample of Internet prices ...

APMEX 2017 Gold Dragon 368.01 (1.103%)
APMEX 2017 Gold Griffin 399.01 (1.196%)
JMBULLION 2018 Gold Bull 361.07 (1.083%)
JMBULLION 2017 Gold Dragon 363.07 (1.089%)
JMBULLION 2018 Gold Unicorn 363.07 (1.089%)
JMBULLION 2017 Gold Griffin 369.57 (1.108%)
JMBULLION 2016 Gold Lion 375.07 (1.125%)
JMBULLION 2017 Gold Griffin NGC 423.08 (1.269%)
JMBULLION 2017 Gold Dragon NGC 423.08 (1.269%)
JMBULLION 2018 Gold Unicorn NGC 423.08 (1.269%)
JMBULLION 2016 Gold Lion NGC 433.08 (1.298%)
SDBULLION 2017 Gold Dragon 359.80 (1.079%)
SDBULLION 2018 Gold Unicorn 358.80 (1.076%)
SDBULLION 2017 Gold Griffin 376.80 (1.13%)
SDBULLION 2018 Gold Bull 358.8 (1.758%)
SDBULLION 2016 Gold Lion 373.80 (1.121%)
SDBULLION 2017 Gold Griffin 373.80 (1.121%)
SILVER.COM 2017 Gold Griffin NGC 423.08 (1.269%)
SILVER.COM 2017 Gold Griffin 369.57 (1.108%)
SILVER.COM 2018 Gold Bull 361.07 (1.083%)
SILVER.COm 2017 Gold Dragon 363.07 (1.089%)
SILVER.COM 2018 Gold Unicorn 363.07 (1.089%)
SILVER.COM 2016 Gold Lion 375.07 (1.125%)
SILVER.COM 2017 Gold Dragon NGC 423.08 (1.269%)
SILVER.COM 2016 Gold Lion NGC 433.08 (1.298%)
BOLDPRECIOUSMETALS.COM 2018 Gold Unicorn 364.28 (1.092%)
BOLDPRECIOUSMETALS.COM 2018 Gold Bull 362.91 (1.089%)
BOLDPRECIOUSMETALS.COM 2017 Gold Griffin 363.28 (1.089%)
BOLDPRECIOUSMETALS.COM 2017 Gold Dragon 363.20 (1.089%)
BOLDPRECIOUSMETALS.COM 2016 Gold Lion 363.23 (1.089%)

[FlorinCollector]

Looks like its probably best trying to get an american to buy and then ship to UK. Cos its pure gold it doesnt incur any charges is that right?

[fehk2001]

20 minutes ago, kimchi said:

You are very good to me kind Mr Rabbit, I still feed my family from the 'extra food' you sent me with the machine a few weeks ago

@Bullionbilly got something else , now he is licking his wounds 

[Bullionbilly]

1 hour ago, fehk2001 said:

@Bullionbilly got something else , now he is licking his wounds 

Kick a man while hes down....

[FlorinCollector]

I dont know whats going on with these. Now the dragon is in the same position as the lion and griffin. Don’t know why they are jumping so much :/ 

[Frenchie]

Yes what is going on seems to be a big hype...the first coins could become  the "Lunar mouses" in the serie and I notice that it touches the 1 oz gold, not really the 1/4oz gold coins.

Look at the royal mint bullion 1oz gold prices !...Lion 1470£, Griffin 1330£, and Dragon slowly rising 1185£.

The serie is growing and the production is finished for the first 2 and Dealers cannot get these coins anymore. So the hype is coming with the last coins remaining.

I have look several days  for the Griffin everywhere (there are a handful  Griffin remaining in UK at decent prices but dealers, did not sell abroad  )

I have finally been able to  find a Griffin from Bleyer at a "friendly price" at 1150£ and they said that they are going to "adjust" prices within the next days

I don't even talk about the Lion !  The winners in this run are Celticgold Lion at 1897€, Griffin at 1743€) Coininvest (1868€ and 1715€ respectively). 

You can still get 1 Lion at Goldsilver.be at a "decent" price around 1460 euros, Griffin sold out at 1380€ (I missed the last one )  

So if you are interested by these,  it would be better to hurry  up !