Is this a 1891 short tail sovereign

[gold]

Hi, I think that this sovereign I have is a 1891 short tail sovereign. could anyone confirm this.

 

[MikeSol]

Certainly looks like one.

[gold]

Thanks for clarifying that it is a short tail. I just wanted to double check 

Edited February 27, 2018 by gold

[MikeSol]

5 minutes ago, gold said:

Thanks for clarifying that it is a short tail. I just wanted to double check 

Long Tail for comparison.

[sovereignsteve]

3 hours ago, gold said:

Hi, I think that this sovereign I have is a 1891 short tail sovereign. could anyone confirm this

It's definitely not a long tail but there is supposed to be a "medium" tail as well as short. I must confess to getting confused with length of horse tails and tend not to hurt my brain studying them too much.

Are you thinking yours is the ultra rare S3866B (MAM129)?

[gold]

Yes I think it is the S3866B after checking on goldsovereign.com. The tail on their example ends in the same place as my one. do you think it's this one aswell.

[SovTracker]

Yes it it a Short Tail variety S-3866B as you can tell from the two hairlines that come from the left hand side of the tail just after the tail curves down.

The Short Tail is noticeably shorter than the Long Tail. I personally think the Medium Tail is a nightmare to confirm. There are indicators, however, worn dies can also give an impression of a Medium Tail when it actually isn't.

A nice find on the 1891 Short Tail and the condition looks about normal. Most are quite worn but a rare coin all the same.

[gold]

Thank you sovtracker, for confirming my query.

[999magnum]

Omg my brain is turning to mush with all the different types, years, small tail, long tail, shieldbacks, young and old, cologne or perfume!!!!

[gold]

Do you think I should get the coin graded. If so what grade do you think it would get

[sovereignsteve]

17 minutes ago, gold said:

Do you think I should get the coin graded. If so what grade do you think it would get

IMO the grade is aVF, so my guess would be about EF45

I would be inclined to send the pics to Baldwins or Spink etc to get the variety verified and an estimate of value.

Having it graded might not achieve much and variety grading can be expensive. Not something I know a lot about though, others will know better.

[WealdenWoodsman]

9 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

IMO the grade is aVF, so my guess would be about EF45

I would be inclined to send the pics to Baldwins or Spink etc to get the variety verified and an estimate of value.

Having it graded might not achieve much and variety grading can be expensive. Not something I know a lot about though, others will know better.

+1 for sending the details to Spink. They are very helpful in my experience (more so than Baldwins...), they would also be able to advise regarding grade.

However don't be surprised if they hang up at the talk of slabbing!

[Xander]

On 2/27/2018 at 10:52, gold said:

Hi, I think that this sovereign I have is a 1891 short tail sovereign. could anyone confirm this.

 

Check this out, they are exclusive to young head and Jubilee issues.

[sixgun]

As SovTracker says the two spurs can be seen on the coin

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by sixgun

[SovTracker]

Here's my PCGS Graded VF35 for comparison.

I would say that your looks better and as a rarer coin, if you are into grading then I would.

I think you might get an XF40 with NGC but its always difficult to tell from pictures.

NGC have only graded 1 1891 Short Tail and PCGS 4 so you would be in a pretty "exclusive" club!

Whatever you do, you have a nice rare coin to treasure.

[gold]

Thanks guys that information is very helpful. I have just sent an email to spink to see what they say. I bought it from a bullion dealer just above the gold price. It was a total shock when I realised it was a short tail. Once again thanks for all your help.

[sovereignsteve]

9 minutes ago, gold said:

Thanks guys that information is very helpful. I have just sent an email to spink to see what they say. I bought it from a bullion dealer just above the gold price. It was a total shock when I realised it was a short tail. Once again thanks for all your help.

It's been said many times on here, just one of the potential benefits to stacking sovereigns!

[Elements]

2 hours ago, Xander said:

Check this out, they are exclusive to young head and Jubilee issues.

Which book is that? I can’t find a great deal of info on the 1891 in the Marsh book

[Xander]

5 minutes ago, Elements said:

Which book is that? I can’t find a great deal of info on the 1891 in the Marsh book

Australian Coins and Banknotes by Greg McDonald.

22nd Edition.

[westminstrel]

On the topic of tails, is there a standard used for current Sovereigns or does it vary?

If I’m not recalling incorrectly, I’ve seen stock images (even on the RM website) that show one tail design but actual coin pictures show another ?

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, westminstrel said:

On the topic of tails, is there a standard used for current Sovereigns or does it vary?

If I’m not recalling incorrectly, I’ve seen stock images (even on the RM website) that show one tail design but actual coin pictures show another ?

No idea, modern sovs don't interest me enough to research.

I do know they tend to change the G&D design a little all the time.
With proof coins I doubt whether there will be enough dies made and used over a long enough timeframe to enable the use of different engravings, so that all coins struck will be identical.
With bullion, there may be more scope for differences but realistically, the numbers being produced are not in the same ball park as 150 - 200 years ago. Therefore it is unlikely that differently engraved dies will be used throughout the production run.

Who knows, maybe in 50 years the collectors of the day will be talking about various lengths of tail and searching out the rare ones?

[TheGoldSovereign]

I have both versions of these, will put up a pic in a minute for easy comparison, not that it's needed but still useful

They are definitely harder to get in good condition, I've got 3 and all aren't anywhere near the long tail. (On reflection it's actually pretty decent, at least way better grade than the PCGS above)

Personally I've never graded anything, I don't need somebody else to tell me what i have

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by sg86

[SovTracker]

Well I see this coin is now on Ebay! The price will make any other owner delighted if it ever sold. If sg86 has 3 from the stack purchased (or was it mountain?), then maybe it isn't quite so rare either?

A price of about a quarter to a fifth of the current price for the condition would sound about right to me - but who knows?

I'm after a better one than the one I have but it came already slabbed and I only paid about a 30% premium to spot for it, so a nice "space filler" for now.

[Elements]

On 27/02/2018 at 10:52, gold said:

Hi, I think that this sovereign I have is a 1891 short tail sovereign. could anyone confirm this.

 

 

This is like yours right?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-Sovereign-1891-Melbourne-Horse-With-Short-Tail-DISH-M15-Very-Rare/152931466374?hash=item239b6cfc86:g:DyAAAOSw2tFajA1D

decent premium over bullion, well done!

 

oh I see chards also have one in. https://www.chards.co.uk/1891-gold-sovereign-victoria-jubilee-head-fine-melbourne/273

Edited March 4, 2018 by Elements
Another link

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, Elements said:

oh I see chards also have one in. https://www.chards.co.uk/1891-gold-sovereign-victoria-jubilee-head-fine-melbourne/273

except that the photo on the Chards page isn't a short tail. in fact I don't even think it has Melbourne mint mark.