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MrGeorge

What will happen to gold if we go digital

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Seriously see this happening in the not to distant future, fiat is on its way out and i think bitcoin will shoot up in value then crash to nothing. Bankers will jump in with this new super duper crypto and fiat will be no more. So if this does happen what does that mean for gold ? Will gold crash if we go full digital currency?

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1 minute ago, MrGeorge said:

Seriously see this happening in the not to distant future, fiat is on its way out and i think bitcoin will shoot up in value then crash to nothing. Bankers will jump in with this new super duper crypto and fiat will be no more. So if this does happen what does that mean for gold ? Will gold crash if we go full digital currency?

Aren't we already most of the way there? I mean, I live in a city and barely ever carry cash anymore. Between contactless cards, mobile banking and e-commerce cash doesn't feature much in my life.

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Bitcoin is not the currency of the future.  Bitcoin will be killed by the bankers when they are ready to launch their own versions after the crypto beta testers have completed the scalability + security testing.

Russia + China are the big tech guys yet they are both buying gold as quickly possible.

A digital Yuan backed by gold is a future possibility.

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18 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

Aren't we already most of the way there? I mean, I live in a city and barely ever carry cash anymore. Between contactless cards, mobile banking and e-commerce cash doesn't feature much in my life.

Yes but theres a huge difference between almost being there and zero paper money available, im saying what if fiat ends up not existing anymore what happens to gold in everyone’s opinion?

Edited by MrGeorge

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1 minute ago, MrGeorge said:

Yes but theres a huge difference between almost being there and zero paper money available, im saying what if fiat ends up not existing anymore what happens to gold in everyone’s opinion?

Those that have it in hand will own it, those who don't won't be able to buy it when the government says you can't have it. The trouble is, you won't be able to sell it legitimately in that situation. Will there be any point in having it?

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7 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Those that have it in hand will own it, those who don't won't be able to buy it when the government says you can't have it. The trouble is, you won't be able to sell it legitimately in that situation. Will there be any point in having it?

 

0D4C849A-532E-4E74-A904-4AEBCE70DC6D.jpeg

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21 minutes ago, MrGeorge said:

Seriously see this happening in the not to distant future, fiat is on its way out and i think bitcoin will shoot up in value then crash to nothing. Bankers will jump in with this new super duper crypto and fiat will be no more. So if this does happen what does that mean for gold ? Will gold crash if we go full digital currency?

Isn't fiat in the powers that be best interest? if so, why would they allow it to be replaced by cryptos 

 

 

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I think that a cashless society is further off than we might think. Realistically, it is only the western world and the wealthy Asian countries that could go cashless. Cash is still king in Africa, India,Southeast Asia and many of the middle eastern countries. Imagine going to say, Morocco  with only a debit card! You wouldn't get far! 

 

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Just now, CosmikDebris said:

I think that a cashless society is further off than we might think. Realistically, it is only the western world and the wealthy Asian countries that could go cashless. Cash is still king in Africa, India,Southeast Asia and many of the middle eastern countries. Imagine going to say, Morocco  with only a debit card! You wouldn't get far! 

 

Actually the last twelve months have been a really interesting period in India (to the best of my understanding). The government withdrew most banknotes in late 2016 and the lack of physical cash spurred a huge increase in people using mobile payments. Whether that permeates lower than the middle classes I'm not sure, but the Indian government is definitely aggressively pursuing a cashless society

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9 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

Actually the last twelve months have been a really interesting period in India (to the best of my understanding). The government withdrew most banknotes in late 2016 and the lack of physical cash spurred a huge increase in people using mobile payments. Whether that permeates lower than the middle classes I'm not sure, but the Indian government is definitely aggressively pursuing a cashless society

This article deals with that issue. Theconversation.com/why-a-cashless-society-would-hurt-the-poor-a-lesson-from-india-79735

Essentially, 97% of all transactions made by the poor are in cash!

Edited by CosmikDebris
SPELLING ERROR

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16 minutes ago, dutchman said:

i have read various reports of china being very economical with the truth about how much gold it has and is buying with some estimates as high as 4000 tons must be a reason for it

I think the 2008 crisis woke up many countries holding trillions in US Dollar treasuries that they could have all been rendered worthless overnight.  It's only since then the Chinese have gone on a dedicated mission to swap out much of these for hard tangible assets that won't disappear should it happen again.  

I agree with the OP's theory that we are heading "cashless", true there is an argument to be made that we are 90% of the way there already but at least for now we have the ability to plank some cash aside in case of emergencies.  With a full digital currency your paycheck and any windfalls remain in the bank in digital format and in the event of a banking crisis you can't get it out, great news for the banks as they can introduce steeper and steeper negative interest rates and you can either put up with it or spend it. There is no more bank runs all that will happen in the event of a crisis is your contactless payment and cards will just stop working one morning while the bank decides how much of a haircut to give you to bail them out and they now have access to all your wealth, every last penny.

This is where gold and silver comes in, when the cashless system is announced there will be a mad rush to get something of worth to hold as assets outside the banking system and if you don't already have any you are going to have to pay and there wont be enough for everyone.  Even if this scenario does not come around then we are stuck with what we have now, endless money printing and the banks buying up everything with it so there is nothing left for the little guy, what happens once they own all the bonds and stocks, are they going to start buying art and classic cars etc.  Again best to get physical assets while you can.

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Bitcoin and company are fiat.  The only difference is former being issued by a private individual or group, the latter issued by government.  We're already in realms of digital money in that so much is created and accounted for in nothing but computer systems, changing the method to cryptocurrency makes no difference to most the population because it would be seamless to them.   Effect on gold?  Those into PMs and some new people might buy in more, unlikely to shift the value substantially if the money markets/traders aren't impacted by the transition. 

Edited by Martlet

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2 hours ago, MrGeorge said:

Seriously see this happening in the not to distant future, fiat is on its way out and i think bitcoin will shoot up in value then crash to nothing. Bankers will jump in with this new super duper crypto and fiat will be no more. So if this does happen what does that mean for gold ? Will gold crash if we go full digital currency?

I was at the petrol station today, bought diesel for the car, went to pay and all I did was hover the bank card 2" above the machine totally contactless, paid instantly, a nanosecond. We are pretty much digital now.

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1 hour ago, Martlet said:

Bitcoin and company are fiat.

A quick thought, I don't know how it works for other crypto currency but I heard bitcoin has a fundamental maximum number built in, so it's designed to be slightly counter-inflationary because miners get fewer coins as time goes on. Does this make it significantly different to fiat currencies where a central body can issue more essentially at will? Curious to hear people's views on this.

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20 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

A quick thought, I don't know how it works for other crypto currency but I heard bitcoin has a fundamental maximum number built in, so it's designed to be slightly counter-inflationary because miners get fewer coins as time goes on. Does this make it significantly different to fiat currencies where a central body can issue more essentially at will? Curious to hear people's views on this.

I have always wondered if crypto forking could essentialy be QE.  With current cryptos the forked currency that emerges is regarded as totally different but is it possible that if the banksters took over it could just be regarded as the same currency and forking just expands the supply just like QE.  Is it also possible that if the banksters regulate everything else to death could mining become simplified in the official digital currency as currently miners chop and change what they mine to whatever is cheapest or most profitable for them.  This is also one of Bitcoins failings as the miners have a degree of control over it.

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8 hours ago, PansPurse said:

A quick thought, I don't know how it works for other crypto currency but I heard bitcoin has a fundamental maximum number built in, so it's designed to be slightly counter-inflationary because miners get fewer coins as time goes on. Does this make it significantly different to fiat currencies where a central body can issue more essentially at will? Curious to hear people's views on this.

Bitcoin is indeed limited, but this is a programming variable that could be changed.  Its unlikely, but if the core community (miners) came to consensus it would go through. 

Cryptos are fiat because they are issued from nothing, with no intrinsic value (energy used is not intrinsic value, its a cost of production).  Their limits can be adjusted, blockchains forked to instantly double the amount of currency and new versions created by some developer team.  The only functional difference from conventional fiat is that the authority is a group of developers and core community, rather than a government.  It is decentralised and democratised through that authority, but that doesn't give it any intrinsic value. 

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On 12/27/2017 at 21:47, mr-dead said:

Bitcoin is not the currency of the future.  Bitcoin will be killed by the bankers when they are ready to launch their own versions after the crypto beta testers have completed the scalability + security testing.

Russia + China are the big tech guys yet they are both buying gold as quickly possible.

A digital Yuan backed by gold is a future possibility.

Seems its happening quicker than I thought:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/898309/bitcoin-news-bank-of-england-bitcoin-price-btc-gbp-mark-carney-digital-currency

Wait until a few other central banks follow their lead then there will be a joined up approach to internationally ban crypto after its been demonized for several months being linked to terrorism, drug dealing, circumventing sanctions etc.

 

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Bitcoin is the biggest scam I ever seen.Lost 50 pounds,bought with blockchain and tried to sell the bitcoins to see how much they charge and to understand better the bitcoin but your account gets blocked for 7 days,just once, for ''security'' reasons.During these 7 days the price plummeted so nothing you could do.For every transaction they charge the same amount in fees or for miners because ''The Bitcoin network is currently experiencing record usage, resulting in longer confirmation times and higher miner’s fees for transactions. Transactions are likely to be more expensive and/or take longer to complete and additional fees go directly to miners.''See some reviews here https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/blockchain.info. People are stuck into it,they can`t sell it because they will lose half the money invested.Also,the price is heavily manipulated.

I own a few kilo of silver coins from say 1850 to current date.I buy what I like but dunno why everything I like it`s expensive.I strongly believe you can`t go wrong with old coins as an investment and if you are lucky enough you can get crazy deals on ebay.One example of a crazy deal was to win an auction of an 1911 Chinese HOT flame dollar with 92 pounds last year and just tried to buy another one but it sold with 600 pounds.I got many good deals on ebay but I spend a lot of time searching for bargains.You can`t go wrong investing in art,coins,antiques.Just started to invest in old gold coins buying from reputable gold dealers but so far it`s been a disaster.Gold is King because it has unique properties and also because it makes us feel like Smeagol. ''Scientists have observed two stars slamming into each other deep in space sending out huge amounts of gold in an alchemical explosion''.

Looking at the gold chart in dollars it looks bullish .I think people are quietly buying gold.Big banks are rising the interest rates,inflation soaring...

My motto is: If a great recession will happen I win because I hold precious metals.If there won`t be any recession I still win because there`s nothing to worry about and I can keep buying coins  :D

 

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On 12/30/2017 at 22:14, mr-dead said:

Seems its happening quicker than I thought:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/898309/bitcoin-news-bank-of-england-bitcoin-price-btc-gbp-mark-carney-digital-currency

Wait until a few other central banks follow their lead then there will be a joined up approach to internationally ban crypto after its been demonized for several months being linked to terrorism, drug dealing, circumventing sanctions etc.

 

So Bank Of England are jumping on board and now Russia, Bitcoin is on its last legs in my opinion.

1 Final superpump before the guys at the top dump and run.

Capture.PNG

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On 12/28/2017 at 02:53, Martlet said:

Bitcoin is indeed limited, but this is a programming variable that could be changed.  Its unlikely, but if the core community (miners) came to consensus it would go through. 

Cryptos are fiat because they are issued from nothing, with no intrinsic value (energy used is not intrinsic value, its a cost of production).  Their limits can be adjusted, blockchains forked to instantly double the amount of currency and new versions created by some developer team.  The only functional difference from conventional fiat is that the authority is a group of developers and core community, rather than a government.  It is decentralised and democratised through that authority, but that doesn't give it any intrinsic value. 

Yeah, I agree that Bitcoin is a fiat currency, but I do think that it is superior to government fiat currency because it is democratized and programmed to be limited.  Something that I have been reading about recently that I think are really cool are gold-backed cryptocurrencies, which could potentially join the security and intrinsic value of gold with the convenience of a digital currency.

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8 minutes ago, Nora said:

Something that I have been reading about recently that I think are really cool are gold-backed cryptocurrencies, which could potentially join the security and intrinsic value of gold with the convenience of a digital currency.

I'm really pretty sceptical of this. Although the idea sounds tempting, the simple fact is there's nothing that intrinsically links the digital token to the physical metal.

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