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MrGeorge

What will happen to gold if we go digital

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4 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

I'm really pretty sceptical of this. Although the idea sounds tempting, the simple fact is there's nothing that intrinsically links the digital token to the physical metal.

I can see where you are coming from, but they do have physical gold vaulted that legally belongs to you, right?  Isn't that no different than vaulting your coins anywhere (besides at your own home)?

Edited by Nora

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bitcoingoldvault goes to goldbullionvaults.

 

bitcoingoldvault: I want to buy some vaulted gold.

goldbullionvaults: how much would you like and how

would you like to pay?

bitcoingoldvault: $x amounts worth and paid by

bitcoingoldvault coins. these coins are backed by vaulted

physical gold.

goldbullionvaults: the same vaulted physical gold that you

are buying from me now?

 

if cryptocurrencies worked like any other market product

then you could simply sell your cryptocurrency and buy

physical gold with the proceeds. you wouldn't need it to

be backed by vaulted gold and continuously pay the

storage fees for when it's value is still in cryptocurrency

form. is this a 'gold standard approach' to fixing a broken

market?

 

HH

Edited by HawkHybrid

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28 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

I'm really pretty sceptical of this. Although the idea sounds tempting, the simple fact is there's nothing that intrinsically links the digital token to the physical metal.

I guess so, but then is it really that different to, say, the Royal Mint's signature gold service?

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1 hour ago, Nora said:

I can see where you are coming from, but they do have physical gold vaulted that legally belongs to you, right?  Isn't that no different than vaulting your coins anywhere (besides at your own home)?

Right, so what does the cryptocurrency bring to the party?  If we're going to trust a vault,  I'd rather trust the established vault operators and services than some upstart promising a new technological angle to and old established business.

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7 hours ago, Nora said:

Yeah, I agree that Bitcoin is a fiat currency, but I do think that it is superior to government fiat currency because it is democratized and programmed to be limited.  Something that I have been reading about recently that I think are really cool are gold-backed cryptocurrencies, which could potentially join the security and intrinsic value of gold with the convenience of a digital currency.

Sounds nice, and I would agree, but only if its completely convertible to physical.  And I don't mean in the same way the Comex works today.  So if I own even 1 oz of gold backed crypto whatever, I should be able to "take delivery" of that 1 oz of physical gold (minus some reasonable fee I suppose).  Otherwise, its just a ruse or game.  The option of the common person to take physical delivery is the only way to keep the system honest in my opinion.

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DIgital currency doesn't of itself create a problem for owning gold. The problem is that all the arguments that are being made for banning cash - that it is used for money laundering, drug dealing, tax fraud, terrorism, etc. - are also arguments for banning ownership of gold, and for that matter cryptocurrencies as well. If you own a few gold coins and you have purchase receipts, you should still be able to trade them, but if you have larger amounts you might be better off holding them offshore, e.g. in Switzerland or Singapore.

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Bitcoin has to many fees and the fees are ridiculous. Whereas cash and precious metals carry very little fees. Gold and silver are the true crypto currency's because nobody knows that you have them. and when it come to selling or buying something with them, the deal is between the two parties and the government does not know about the deal.

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3 minutes ago, gold said:

Bitcoin has to many fees and the fees are ridiculous. Whereas cash and precious metals carry very little fees. Gold and silver are the true crypto currency's because nobody knows that you have them. and when it come to selling or buying something with them, the deal is between the two parties and the government does not know about the deal.

Yes, but physical PMs are more of an issue if, say, conducting a transaction internationally. Also there's things like getting mugged or stopped by police that impact face to face dealings.

Horses for courses?

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On 1/2/2018 at 18:57, tbone said:

Sounds nice, and I would agree, but only if its completely convertible to physical.  And I don't mean in the same way the Comex works today.  So if I own even 1 oz of gold backed crypto whatever, I should be able to "take delivery" of that 1 oz of physical gold (minus some reasonable fee I suppose).  Otherwise, its just a ruse or game.  The option of the common person to take physical delivery is the only way to keep the system honest in my opinion.

I totally agree.  From the research I've done, it seems that this is possible with most gold-backed cryptocurrencies.  I've read through several whitepapers and most describe a process to withdraw physical gold (and yes, often with a fee applied).  Some, such as OneGram, ZenGold, and GoldMint, destroy the crypto-asset when the physical gold is withdrawn.  There is another cryptocurrency, called GoldCrypto, that is backing their coins by gold in the ground, and so one won't be able to withdraw physical gold until several years from now when it is mined.

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2 hours ago, Nora said:

 There is another cryptocurrency, called GoldCrypto, that is backing their coins by gold in the ground, and so one won't be able to withdraw physical gold until several years from now when it is mined.

This is very interesting. Canada probably saw this coming when it sold the last of its vaulted gold reserves. 

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5 hours ago, Nora said:

There is another cryptocurrency, called GoldCrypto, that is backing their coins by gold in the ground, and so one won't be able to withdraw physical gold until several years from now when it is mined.

 

who is going to pay to get it mined?

 

HH

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i have mentioned in other threads for quite some time now, a new gold and silver blockchain currency. It will be announced over 17th -19th January at the Saint Moritz cryptocurrency conference  https://www.crypto-finance-conference.com/en/

No need to hypothesise, it is almost upon us. There are $billions lined up to be invested. 

It is blockchain title of ownership over vaulted gold and silver. Fully backed, fully redeemable and tradeable on the German stock exchange. The coins will be 'worth their weight' in gold or silver (there will be a gold and silver version) because they will simply be a digital title of ownership. They will be money divisible down to a gram of gold. So next week the full details will be out for all to peruse. There is more to these, including an income stream to those who mined them.

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24 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i have mentioned in other threads for quite some time now, a new gold and silver blockchain currency. It will be announced over 17th -19th January at the Saint Moritz cryptocurrency conference  https://www.crypto-finance-conference.com/en/

No need to hypothesise, it is almost upon us. There are $billions lined up to be invested. 

It is blockchain title of ownership over vaulted gold and silver. Fully backed, fully redeemable and tradeable on the German stock exchange. The coins will be 'worth their weight' in gold or silver (there will be a gold and silver version) because they will simply be a digital title of ownership. They will be money divisible down to a gram of gold. So next week the full details will be out for all to peruse. There is more to these, including an income stream to those who mined them.

How will they be valued, is there any reason to think they won't just mirror the PM spot prices?

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5 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

How will they be valued, is there any reason to think they won't just mirror the PM spot prices?

There will be a small premium - you are buying a fully backed, fully redeemable asset which will be easily tradeable and transferred. You will hear that GLD and SLV shares are a holding in precious metals but you will never be able to redeem them and there are doubts all the metal ever existed.

Yes they will follow the metal prices - they will be title of ownership to metal. They are the metal in blockchain.

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1 minute ago, sixgun said:

There will be a small premium - you are buying a fully backed, fully redeemable asset which will be easily tradeable and transferred. You will hear that GLD and SLV shares are a holding in precious metals but you will never be able to redeem them and there are doubts all the metal ever existed.

Yes they will follow the metal prices - they will be title of ownership to metal. They are the metal in blockchain.

So, essentially like owning the metal without actually having it in hand

and it won't be subject to speculative forces like bitcoin

 

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3 minutes ago, sixgun said:

There will be a small premium - you are buying a fully backed, fully redeemable asset which will be easily tradeable and transferred. You will hear that GLD and SLV shares are a holding in precious metals but you will never be able to redeem them and there are doubts all the metal ever existed.

Yes they will follow the metal prices - they will be title of ownership to metal. They are the metal in blockchain.

That sounds great, @sixgun.  What will the cryptocurrency be called?  Does it have a website?

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3 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

So, essentially like owning the metal without actually having it in hand

and it won't be subject to speculative forces like bitcoin

 

One of the characteristics of money is it is worth the same today as it was last week and will be next week. The current cryptos are all over the place. Today you have enough BTC to buy the shopping but will you have enough by the time you have reached the checkout? This makes them impractical as money at the moment.

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7 minutes ago, Nora said:

That sounds great, @sixgun.  What will the cryptocurrency be called?  Does it have a website?

i don't know what it to be called yet. It has been kept top secret. i have metal waiting to go into this but i have not been given the all the info yet.

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23 hours ago, sixgun said:

i don't know what it to be called yet. It has been kept top secret. i have metal waiting to go into this but i have not been given the all the info yet.

How does it compare to other gold-backed cryptos that have already been announced, such as OneGram, ZenGold, AurusGold, BullionCoin, RoyalMintGold, and others?

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58 minutes ago, Nora said:

How does it compare to other gold-backed cryptos that have already been announced, such as OneGram, ZenGold, AurusGold, BullionCoin, RoyalMintGold, and others?

i know that at least 250 tonnes of gold is going into this from the off - it is more but i don't know how much more - (probably a lot). It will be traded on the German stock exchange. There is backing for a very large entity. There will be a yield for 'miners' of the coins. It is the biggest ICO yet (ever). Other coins have elements of this but nothing on this scale. It has in effect been designed to take the paper market down.

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