Digital 'Currencies' Are ALL A Scam

[reidpj]

2 hours ago, Mcgrimes said:

You’re right, £1 will always be £1. And one loaf of bread will always be one loaf of bread,

But, one loaf of bread won’t always be £1

One loaf of bread will not always be worth one loaf of bread - bread isn't Standardised.  

The price of bread will rise and fall in £Sterling, but this will be due to, everything else being equal, inflation/deflation, not on whether we will always (under present law) be obliged to obtain £Sterling here in the UK - we cannot pay our tax obligations with anything else.  e.g. I could've bought £100k of Bitcoin and sold it for for say €600k (say £500k @ 1.2€ to £1); I would have made, before fees, etc. £400k; on which I'm obliged to pay UK CGT (it makes no difference that I sold them in €, the UK tax (approx. £70k give or take) is still due, and it has to be paid in £Sterling.  Which means that I have to buy £Sterling (at whatever rate the market wants) to meet my obligation - therefore, as opposed to Bitcoin, loaves of bread, gold, silver, €, $, etc, here in the UK £Sterling (because of taxation) will never be worthless.

[Mcgrimes]

1 hour ago, reidpj said:

One loaf of bread will not always be worth one loaf of bread - bread isn't Standardised.  

The price of bread will rise and fall in £Sterling, but this will be due to, everything else being equal, inflation/deflation, not on whether we will always (under present law) be obliged to obtain £Sterling here in the UK - we cannot pay our tax obligations with anything else.  e.g. I could've bought £100k of Bitcoin and sold it for for say €600k (say £500k @ 1.2€ to £1); I would have made, before fees, etc. £400k; on which I'm obliged to pay UK CGT (it makes no difference that I sold them in €, the UK tax (approx. £70k give or take) is still due, and it has to be paid in £Sterling.  Which means that I have to buy £Sterling (at whatever rate the market wants) to meet my obligation - therefore, as opposed to Bitcoin, loaves of bread, gold, silver, €, $, etc, here in the UK £Sterling (because of taxation) will never be worthless.

 

A loaf of bread will always be a loaf of bread; the point I was trying to make is that the value of the pound changes (generally falls) and that one day a loaf of bread might cost £1000.

I suppose it depends what you mean by lose it’s worth here in the UK; I interpreted your comment as the value of the pound won’t fall in the UK, but now realise you meant that the pound will always be of use even if it is worthless as it’s our currency - correct?

[reidpj]

48 minutes ago, Mcgrimes said:

 

A loaf of bread will always be a loaf of bread; the point I was trying to make is that the value of the pound changes (generally falls) and that one day a loaf of bread might cost £1000.

I suppose it depends what you mean by lose it’s worth here in the UK; I interpreted your comment as the value of the pound won’t fall in the UK, but now realise you meant that the pound will always be of use even if it is worthless as it’s our currency - correct?

Yep.  The value of the £, when compared to other currencies, commodities, etc. may rise and fall; but, here in the UK, as the law stands, it can never become worthless, it's worth stems from taxation - we all need it in order to pay our taxes (we don't need cryptos, PM's, €'s, $'s, etc).

[C12]

This may sound ridiculous but I see the potential for crypto to bring down the entire financial system over the next few years.

I can imagine a future where money evaporates out of stocks, commodities, bonds, bank accounts and gets sucked into an unregulated crypto pyramid system of exponential returns.

The current crypto market cap is almost $1trillion and growing rapidly. It may be well over $10trillion in a couple of years. Right now the exchanges can't keep up with the scramble to buy these Altcoins. Binance has just shut it's doors on new registrations so I'd expect we'll see a fresh wave of unregulated exchanges opening over the next year.

I'm not even sure how anyone can prepare for it. Even if you buy these coins now, there's no guarantee you'll eventually be able to do anything with them.

Eventually people wont be able to cash out since there may not be any bank to transfer back to. How about a situation of complete blackouts as energy suppliers and ISP's are unable to maintain their networks. How will crypto coins help in this environment? This sounds like a doomsday scenario but something to think about.

[FlorinCollector]

1 minute ago, C12 said:

This may sound ridiculous but I see the potential for crypto to bring down the entire financial system over the next few years.

I can imagine a future where money evaporates out of stocks, commodities, bonds, bank accounts and gets sucked into an unregulated crypto pyramid system of exponential returns.

The current crypto market cap is almost $1trillion and growing rapidly. It may be well over $10trillion in a couple of years. Right now the exchanges can't keep up with the scramble to buy these Altcoins. Binance has just shut it's doors on new registrations so I'd expect we'll see a fresh wave of unregulated exchanges opening over the next year.

I'm not even sure how anyone can prepare for it. Even if you buy these coins now, there's no guarantee you'll eventually be able to do anything with them.

Eventually people wont be able to cash out since there may not be any bank to transfer back to. How about a situation of complete blackouts as energy suppliers and ISP's are unable to maintain their networks. How will crypto coins help in this environment? This sounds like a doomsday scenario but something to think about.

I like the idea of 10 trillion market cap id be able to buy quite some amount of gold with my current small portfolio of crypto.

as in for the rest who knows. 

Also didnt know that about binance. Im glad i have an account already thats where i buy my alts.

[C12]

15 minutes ago, JCRJM said:

I like the idea of 10 trillion market cap id be able to buy quite some amount of gold with my current small portfolio of crypto.

as in for the rest who knows. 

Also didnt know that about binance. Im glad i have an account already thats where i buy my alts.

I was just about to load up £100 of each of the top 15 market cap coins but couldn't register. I found the whole thing to be a bit of a pain in the arse to be honest so will figure it all out over the next week. Coinbase doesn't accept sterling directly so you need to convert it via a currency exchange first to avoid getting stung on the rate and fees. 

The main issue is storing these coins off the exchange. Half of these coins don't even have a viable wallet to stick them on... 

My plan is also to be out of these coins well before the top of the bubble and transfer any gains straight into physical gold.

[FlorinCollector]

I manage to use my card fine on coinbase. Fees are a little bit added on yeh but my card works fine in pounds. I have a £3k limit somehow even though id never be using that much. 

Usually if you go onto the coins website they have a wallet if you r looking to store only top 15 coins you should be fine for all of them.

never leave ur money on the exchange mate.

[C12]

1 minute ago, JCRJM said:

I manage to use my card fine on coinbase. Fees are a little bit added on yeh but my card works fine in pounds. I have a £3k limit somehow even though id never be using that much. 

Usually if you go onto the coins website they have a wallet if you r looking to store only top 15 coins you should be fine for all of them.

never leave ur money on the exchange mate.

Yep, no plans for keeping anything on an unregulated exchange. 

My only concern with crypto is that I feel many coins will eventually evaporate as money gravitates into the latest and greatest coin.

The market cap may hit $10 trillion, but there will probably be over 100,000 competing cryptos at this time and you'll eventually need to be quite nimble in transferring in and out of them. 

[FlorinCollector]

4 minutes ago, C12 said:

Yep, no plans for keeping anything on an unregulated exchange. 

My only concern with crypto is that I feel many coins will eventually evaporate as money gravitates into the latest and greatest coin.

The market cap may hit $10 trillion, but there will probably be over 100,000 competing cryptos at this time and you'll eventually need to be quite nimble in transferring in and out of them. 

That is one way to look at it. That as more stupid money flows in there will be more and more coins. I think you are right and this will happen for so long but eventually the world will catch up with this. 

Then I see most coins dieing. If you go onto most coins website right now they all say the new bitcoin but they have no new technology that the big coins dont have or wont have.

These smaller coins will die out. I couldnt put a number on how many will succeed but i imagine it wont be near 1000. Meaning much lower

[Martlet]

58 minutes ago, C12 said:

This may sound ridiculous but I see the potential for crypto to bring down the entire financial system over the next few years.

I can imagine a future where money evaporates out of stocks, commodities, bonds, bank accounts and gets sucked into an unregulated crypto pyramid system of exponential returns.

This is unlikely to fanciful.   Companies offer products and services, commodities have uses, bonds offer secured rate of return.  What do cryptocoins offer?  Or put another way, people have different appetite for risk, if everyone wanted to be in the high performing, high return end of the economy, bonds wouldn't exist. Most the coins being released are little more than fund raising for business plans, they dont need to release a crypto token but couldn't raise a few million other ways.  The market will correct eventually, they always do, the higher the rise the more those getting in late will lose and the worse the fall out. 

[C12]

21 minutes ago, Martlet said:

This is unlikely to fanciful.   Companies offer products and services, commodities have uses, bonds offer secured rate of return.  What do cryptocoins offer?  Or put another way, people have different appetite for risk, if everyone wanted to be in the high performing, high return end of the economy, bonds wouldn't exist. Most the coins being released are little more than fund raising for business plans, they dont need to release a crypto token but couldn't raise a few million other ways.  The market will correct eventually, they always do, the higher the rise the more those getting in late will lose and the worse the fall out. 

I agree with you that cryptos offer nothing. However, I think you're underestimating the madness of crowds, the fear of missing out and the greed of wanting more.

Companies can go bust, commodities can crash and bonds can be defaulted upon. When the masses wake up and take notice of these insane (and consistent) gains in cryptos, big money will pile in. I think a $10 trillion crypto market cap in the next few years is probably conservative. 

I see this as the early stages of the biggest speculative mania of all time that will eventually dwarf every single bubble on record. It will also lead to the biggest collapse of all time. 

[HelpingHands]

There are those which offer something.

Some offer a service or a product.  People need to use a particular coin to use that service.  Other holders of the coin may receive a share of the coins spent on that service.

 

[reidpj]

13 hours ago, C12 said:

This may sound ridiculous but I see the potential for crypto to bring down the entire financial system over the next few years.

I can imagine a future where money evaporates out of stocks, commodities, bonds, bank accounts and gets sucked into an unregulated crypto pyramid system of exponential returns.

The current crypto market cap is almost $1trillion and growing rapidly. It may be well over $10trillion in a couple of years. Right now the exchanges can't keep up with the scramble to buy these Altcoins. Binance has just shut it's doors on new registrations so I'd expect we'll see a fresh wave of unregulated exchanges opening over the next year.

I'm not even sure how anyone can prepare for it. Even if you buy these coins now, there's no guarantee you'll eventually be able to do anything with them.

Eventually people wont be able to cash out since there may not be any bank to transfer back to. How about a situation of complete blackouts as energy suppliers and ISP's are unable to maintain their networks. How will crypto coins help in this environment? This sounds like a doomsday scenario but something to think about.

What would happen to all the ‘money’ used to buy the crytos?  e.g. if I sold 11oz of gold bullion for £11k, and used that to buy 1 bitcoin; the £11k would not disappear - it would just transfer to a new ‘owner’.

[C12]

6 hours ago, reidpj said:

What would happen to all the ‘money’ used to buy the crytos?  e.g. if I sold 11oz of gold bullion for £11k, and used that to buy 1 bitcoin; the £11k would not disappear - it would just transfer to a new ‘owner’.

I guess that depends if the new 'owner' manages to sell the crypto and transfer the funds into their bank account. I'm not sure the point of the question?

 

[reidpj]

Sorry for the confusion:  I was referring to the new ‘owner’ (technically, the UK Government owns all £Sterling; but let’s not get into that ?) of the £11k.

[C12]

5 minutes ago, reidpj said:

Sorry for the confusion:  I was referring to the new ‘owner’ (technically, the UK Government owns all £Sterling; but let’s not get into that ?) of the £11k.

They better not turn gold into sterling into bitcoin and then back to sterling then.