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C12

Digital 'Currencies' Are ALL A Scam

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Just now, Martlet said:

These are gimmick coins at best and potential scam coins that give the whole ecosystem a bad name.   Potcoin claims to provide transactions for the legalised cannabis industry... something you could use regular cash payment options for, or another existing crypto such as Litecoin, so what on earth is the point of it?

Yeh with these coins I agree with the article these coins will die out. But the people that buy these coins shouldnt be investing in anything in the first place i feel

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23 minutes ago, JCRJM said:

I just want to know if you don't trust the fiat money like many on here. 

You don't trust crypto currencies.

You only trust gold and silver as 'real' money.

If i want to purchase something across the globe. How may I do this with my ounce of gold in my house? 

If someone gave you 1oz gold and 0.1 BTC today and you had to make a purchase from china for around £1000. (not exactly but near enough what they are worth) How would you do this? Please don't tell me you will use fiat as you are against that. Also please don't tell me you will use a gold backed crypto because then we are back to the whole situation about do they really have the gold where they say they hold it? 

If BTC is a ponzi its doing a good job. 

Must be

I've no problem with holding fiat currency at the right times. Certainly In a deflationary spiral you'll be glad for having cash under the mattress.  :)

Also I've no issues with the concept of crypto either. It's a great idea. However, there's very little evidence of any crypto being used as a currency (to actually buy or sell products or services) apart from criminals funnelling fiat from one party to another. 

Crypto is almost purely used as a speculative vehicle, based on the designs of the systems and the sheer volume of people believing they will get rich from it. 

If I want to purchase something from across the globe then we've already got infrastructure in place that already facilitates that. 

Anyway, I'm not suggesting it's going to crash anytime soon or the 'bubble' is over. These things can go on for years (i.e - UK housing mania) so I think it's reasonable to have some speculative exposure to it. 

You just have to be careful that at any moment the governments can ban it, block access to or shut down the exchanges at anytime.

Edited by C12

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5 hours ago, JCRJM said:

Half the posts I see on here are just bitter 😂😂😂😂😂

misunderstood and any time something new comes along people hate it till they have to use it. 

People will keep on hating all the way up.

Bitcoin can't be shut down. If you believe that your research must be poor.

Hiya, mate.

Whether, or not, Bitcoin will ever be widely accepted as a means to transfer wealth is, IMHO, questionable - but I'm no Nostradamus 👀

TBH, I can't envisage a situation where I'll 'have to use' Bitcoin - we (here in the UK) have to use £Sterling (we can't pay our taxes using Bitcoin, €, $, gold, silver, etc.) but we aren't obliged to use anything else.

It may, or not, be possible to shut down Bitcoin - only the future will tell.  But that will not stop governments from (heavily) regulating it - e.g. South Korea threats of a couple of days ago.  If, sometime in the future, the UK Government decided to ban the use of Bitcoin; then you and I, and every other UK citizen, and every UK company, would be committing a criminal offence by using it - whether here or abroad.

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1 minute ago, C12 said:

I've no problem with holding fiat currency at the right times. Certainly In a deflationary spiral you'll be glad for having cash under the mattress.  :)

Also I've no issues with the concept of crypto either. It's a great idea. However, there's very little evidence of any crypto being used as a currency (to actually buy or sell products or services) apart from criminals funnelling fiat from one party to another. 

Crypto is almost purely used as a speculative vehicle, based on the designs of the systems and the sheer volume of people believing they will get rich from it. 

If I want to purchase something from across the globe then we've already got infrastructure in place that already facilitates that. 

Anyway, I'm not suggesting it's going to crash anytime soon or the 'bubble' is over. These things can go on for years (i.e - UK housing mania) so I think it's reasonable to have some speculative exposure to it. 

You just have to be careful that at any moment the governments can ban it, block access to it and shut down the exchanges at anytime.

Yeh i agree with you on some points. A lot of people use it only as speculation and a LOT of people recently ive spoke to who have never invested in their life are looking to buy crypto. 

Also agree on the get rich quick scheme but after one cycle all of those will get rekt.

I have personally used crypto to purchase many things. A few years ago it was easy to use BTC to buy things but because of scaling problems its hit a problem with high transaction fees. When the technology is deveoped further it will improve.

However, the bubble concept. I don't even think it is close to a bubble. Looking at the total market cap it is nothing on a global scale. As it furthers over years it may turn to a bubble but I dont think its yet there. 

Agree governments could ban it but it could still be used even if banned. I think they would cause themselves more problems if they tried this. For example the  crypto ripple is partnering with banks. 

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3 minutes ago, reidpj said:

Hiya, mate.

Whether, or not, Bitcoin will ever be widely accepted as a means to transfer wealth is, IMHO, questionable - but I'm no Nostradamus 👀

TBH, I can't envisage a situation where I'll 'have to use' Bitcoin - we (here in the UK) have to use £Sterling (we can't pay our taxes using Bitcoin, €, $, gold, silver, etc.) but we aren't obliged to use anything else.

It may, or not, be possible to shut down Bitcoin - only the future will tell.  But that will not stop governments from (heavily) regulating it - e.g. South Korea threats of a couple of days ago.  If, sometime in the future, the UK Government decided to ban the use of Bitcoin; then you and I, and every other UK citizen, and every UK company, would be committing a criminal offence by using it - whether here or abroad.

Hi mate tried to answer some of that in my reply I just posted. I agree there when it comes to taxes. I do not know how they overcome that unless they get every exchange to hand over details. I think thag is the way its going.

when i bought btc in 2015 I was annonymous. 

Today I need to send the exchange my passport and driving license. So i think thats the way itll go for taxes. Not sure tho.

 

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On 12/26/2017 at 15:21, sovereignsteve said:

Once he starts cashing in, he might find it difficult to remain anonymous:D

The reason that bitcoin and others exist is to remain anonymous and also so the banks don't get to rip people off like they did do in 2008. Cutting out the banks is a poke in the eye to their Ponzi schemes. If you remember about 2 months ago, a Brussels directive stated that banks don't have to give you any money back should the terrible hit the fan, do they know something we don't?

You buy metals to keep the banks hands off your money, no different in the digital world, except, the greater the risk, the greater the reward, just ask the owner of this forum which direction he's took ;)

 

Oh, and do please bear in mind how many banks the Rothchilds own, including the BoE, tell me thats not a Ponzi scheme, i think the last i heard it was around 120 banks worldwide

Edited by shortstack68

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3 minutes ago, JCRJM said:

Hi mate tried to answer some of that in my reply I just posted. I agree there when it comes to taxes. I do not know how they overcome that unless they get every exchange to hand over details. I think thag is the way its going.

when i bought btc in 2015 I was annonymous. 

Today I need to send the exchange my passport and driving license. So i think thats the way itll go for taxes. Not sure tho.

 

Thing is, we are obliged, by law, to pay our taxes in £Sterling, mate; this obligation is the only thing that gives £Sterling its 'worth' - every UK taxpayer has to obtain it in order to do so.  If the UK Government ever accepted any other 'currency' in payment for taxes, £Sterling would lose all it's value overnight.

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18 minutes ago, JCRJM said:

Yeh i agree with you on some points. A lot of people use it only as speculation and a LOT of people recently ive spoke to who have never invested in their life are looking to buy crypto. 

This is where many people are going to get their asses handed to them, even if Bitcoin goes to £1M per coin in a few years. 

People don't know what their investing in, they don't know how to read a candlestick chart and aren't emotionally equipped to deal with the swings. 

The current technical targets on bitcoin are $8,500 and $4,500 (which could take some months to play out). Even these levels can be taken out and the bull market (bubble) can still be intact. 

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6 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

The reason that bitcoin and others exist is to remain anonymous and also so the banks don't get to rip people off like they did do in 2008. Cutting out the banks is a poke in the eye to their Ponzi schemes. If you remember about 2 months ago, a Brussels directive stated that banks don't have to give you any money back should the terrible hit the fan, do they know something we don't?

You buy metals to keep the banks hands off your money, no different in the digital world, except, the greater the risk, the greater the reward, just ask the owner of this forum which direction he's took ;)

 

Oh, and do please bear in mind how many banks the Rothchilds own, including the BoE, tell me thats not a Ponzi scheme, i think the last i heard it was around 120 banks worldwide

" banks don't have to give you any money back should the terrible hit the fan,"  Would that be the same as Mt Gox?

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1 minute ago, Xander said:

" banks don't have to give you any money back should the terrible hit the fan,"  Would that be the same as Mt Gox?

If you held all of your money on an online exchange. You should have secured your money off of it.

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15 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

The reason that bitcoin and others exist is to remain anonymous

Yet the ownership and transactions of all bitcoins are enshrined in the blockchain. That is how everyone knows how many coins the originator has and whether any have been "cashed in".

My point was that as soon as these coins are cashed, someone somewhere knows who you are, and the spies are everywhere:ph34r:

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54 minutes ago, Xander said:

" banks don't have to give you any money back should the terrible hit the fan,"  Would that be the same as Mt Gox?

Why shouldn’t banks give you your money back, aren’t banks supposed to protect your money? 

If I deposit 1k i’d expect 1k back unless we’re saying banks cannot be trusted to protect our hard earned money.

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46 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Yet the ownership and transactions of all bitcoins are enshrined in the blockchain. That is how everyone knows how many coins the originator has and whether any have been "cashed in".

My point was that as soon as these coins are cashed, someone somewhere knows who you are, and the spies are everywhere:ph34r:

Incorrect, the transaction is a code, not a name, that is why it’s called a decentralised currency.

Satoshi could have 1000 BTC but so do the Winkelvoss twins, they were the guys who sued Zuckenburg for stealing their Facebook idea and invested 11 million of that settlement into BTC which is now worth 1 billion

Lets also not forget that Bitcoin is now being traded in the mainstream as futures, so if anyone thinks it’s going to disappear shortly needs to read a little more. The CMOE has been trading in bitcoin since December

Edited by shortstack68

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29 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

Incorrect, the transaction is a code, not a name,

I know, but you're missing my point. When those coins are cashed, there will be an audit trail away from the blockchain. That will be via a broker or perhaps a bullion dealer, or whatever. At that point, the recipient becomes a "real" person and transactions are traceable by those with the knowledge and expertise.

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5 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

...... When those coins are cashed, there will be an audit trail away from the blockchain. That will be via a broker or perhaps a bullion dealer, or whatever. At that point, the recipient becomes a "real" person and transactions are traceable by those with the knowledge and expertise.

.....and are taxable by the relevant authority.

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17 minutes ago, reidpj said:

.....and are taxable by the relevant authority.

If i were to make  a large profit from digital currency then it would be in my interest to pay the tax on it. So for example, if i started with 1k and was up around 50k then i honestly wouldn't be worried about paying tax from what is already free money..........You pay your taxes on what you earn from your job and the pay tax on that at the bank, at the petrol pump, on your cigs and virtually everything you buy.......

to quote John Cleese in a banker sketch: 

"Yes, we will of course want as security the deeds of your house, of your aunt's house, of your second cousin's house, of your wife's parents' house, and of your grannie's bungalow, and we will in addition need a controlling interest in your new company, unrestricted access to your private bank account, the deposit in our vaults of your three children as hostages and a full legal indemnity against any acts of embezzlement carried out against you by any members of our staff during the normal course of their duties. No, I'm afraid we couldn't accept your dog instead of your youngest child, we would like to suggest a brand new scheme of ours under which 51% of both your dog and your wife pass to us in the event of your suffering a serious accident. Fine. No, not at all, nice to do business with you."

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I also remember @mr-dead i think it was bought 9x 1000g bars with profit from crypto, if i remember correctly most of us were drooling at what we saw, not sure though i heard anyone mention tax at this point

The attached chart is a portfolio that was started with 7k........Paying a few quid tax on that free money with free money shouldn't be a worry

 

Block.jpeg

Edited by shortstack68

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7 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

I also remember @mr-dead i think it was bought 9x 1000g bars with profit from crypto, if i remember correctly most of us were drooling at what we saw, not sure though i heard anyone mention tax at this point

The attached chart is a portfolio that was started with 7k........Paying a few quid tax on that free money with free money shouldn't be a worry

 

Block.jpeg

There are those who realise that tax is due; and there are those who don't.......

Were I to off-load any more chargeable assets (be it only £1's worth) in the current tax year (be they cryptos, or not), then, because I have recently disposed of an investment property, in reality said chargeable assets would attract a tax rate of 28%.  Not a problem for me as, like you, I realise that the tax will be due and I , really, don't have a problem paying my obligations 😉

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16 minutes ago, Roy said:

Or aren't clever enough to get on board :(

I put it down to fate. I was never meant to be a bitcoin billionaire :P

One doesn't have to be that clever to gain wealth (I'm the perfect example of that 😉); just clever enough to keep hold of it 👀

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3 hours ago, shortstack68 said:

Why shouldn’t banks give you your money back, aren’t banks supposed to protect your money? 

If I deposit 1k i’d expect 1k back unless we’re saying banks cannot be trusted to protect our hard earned money.

Of course, your money is guaranteed by the bank should someone hack in and steal it. My point is it's not the same with crypto as was the case with MtGox if your coins were in their care you are on to plums. 

Personally, I would prefer a paper wallet plus the ledger S for storage, although this method does have its downside it's about as safe as you can get considering the other methods.

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I don't think the author of the article fully understands cryptocurrency. There are many different mathematical economic models, and models for mining (some don't even have any mining or are all remind). To outright say that all cryptocurrencies are a scam is a bit of a blanket statement.

Here is one example of how tokenisation can be used by a company....

A games company who has an online game sells digital items in the game to users, which they use in the game. Currently the system can easily be cheated and people who don't buy these upgrades are able to cheat the system from a bit of simple hacking and duplicate their items etc.

By making a token and then by registering all of these items in the game on a blockchain, all items are tracked and it isn't possible for items to be duplicated or for tokens to be either. 

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