Calling all seasoned stackers

[kimchi]

3 minutes ago, Roy said:

When she returned, she gave him his goods and the change in Vietnam dong which was truly 'worthless' at that time.

I fondly remember my time spent in Vietnam - beautiful country and people imo

Alas 'twas a bit of a 'lads abroad' affair after my then GF went back to Japan.

I often woke up late afternoon feeling like a million Dong

[kimchi]

2 minutes ago, Markh said:

The only thing that gives fiat value is the FAITH you put in it. I put my faith in my family and stack. As too buying the PM's I can now use bitcoin... so in my eyes it's worthless fiat.

I don't think this is true at all. I put no faith in fiat whatsoever, but that's irrelevant. Others do though for the time being so let them - it enables me to make (imho) worthwhile purchases for the future, and I try to judge those as best I can, imho it'd be very reckless not to.

Would you have your family and/or stack without fiat? No. So why do you say it's worthless?

[Markh]

11 minutes ago, kimchi said:

I don't think this is true at all. I put no faith in fiat whatsoever, but that's irrelevant. Others do though for the time being so let them - it enables me to make (imho) worthwhile purchases for the future, and I try to judge those as best I can, imho it'd be very reckless not to.

Would you have your family and/or stack without fiat? No. So why do you say it's worthless?

Of course I'd still have my family without fiat.. how have people survived for thousands of year's. 

It's worth less because fiat will always revert back to its intrinsic value.

[Markh]

6 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

Doesn't your worthless FIAT buy you your Crypto to buy you your PM? 

No my labor does.?

[kimchi]

4 minutes ago, Markh said:

Of course I'd still have my family without fiat.. how have people survived for thousands of year's. 

It's worth less because fiat will always revert back to its intrinsic value.

The last few thousand years of each 'successful' empire at least have been under fiat as far as I know (I wasn't there, not that I recall anyway - but that's another topic ;)).

Yes fiat always fails, but you would not have your family, a house or a stack (the things you say you care about) at all if it wasn't for fiat, so I'm shocked you can dismiss it so readily before any possible 'crash' comes, and post about carelessly 'wasting' money.

If fiat is 'worthless' as of now then give it all away. You are on the wind up surely?

3 minutes ago, Markh said:

No my labor does.?

Ah I see, your labour is rewarded directly in PMs and Cryptos, yes? And I can only suppose your internet access and whatever device(s) you use for it were direct energy exchanges too. If you have such a system (which sounds like heaven!) in place why are you even mentioning fiat?

[Markh]

you obviously have little faith in fiat yet you defend it with such vigor. I hope you teach your children the true value of fiat because it will be worth less than it is now..fact.

[kimchi]

19 minutes ago, Markh said:

you obviously have little faith in fiat yet you defend it with such vigor. I hope you teach your children the true value of fiat because it will be worth less than it is now..fact.

Worth less than 'worthless', how does that work?

[HawkHybrid]

imo knowing that fiat money will reduce in value as time

passes does not justify taking unnecessary risks with

said fiat money that you worked for and can still be useful

to you. any losses on the fiat money is a loss on your time

that it took to get that fiat money. you traded something

very real and valuable for that fiat money... your time.

 

HH

[Markh]

2 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

imo knowing that fiat money will reduce in value as time

passes does not justify taking unnecessary risks with

said fiat money that you worked for and can still be useful

to you. any losses on the fiat money is a lost on your time

that it took to get that fiat money. you traded something

very real and valuable for that fiat money... your time.

 

HH

There's no risk in buying PM's.

See your comparing everything in fiat terms. 

PM's don't go up or down the currency does. 

Over a longer period fiats just inflate away. 

As for time... if you start early enough you have a lifetime.

Sounds like your late to the party and have a lot of catching up to do.

[Beekepper]

1 hour ago, kimchi said:

I don't think this is true at all. I put no faith in fiat whatsoever, but that's irrelevant. Others do though for the time being so let them - it enables me to make (imho) worthwhile purchases for the future, and I try to judge those as best I can, imho it'd be very reckless not to.

Would you have your family and/or stack without fiat? No. So why do you say it's worthless?

I agree, it is not worthless until ECB stand behind, but if they say its worthless then it is. well the true question is when, not if.

[HawkHybrid]

30 minutes ago, Markh said:

As for time... if you start early enough you have a lifetime.

 

you have a lifetime ahead of you. will you choose to waste

it or use what you have with a purpose?

ask any who has lost money in pm's, there's plenty of risk

for those unprepared.

(I'm always late to the party, what's important is can I still

make something of what I have)

 

HH

[JunkBond]

Thanks for all the input guys, looks like I will still be stacking some silver coins while the EU vat situation is available, getting bullion sovs and dipping my toe in the numi gold coin pool here and there. Looking out for bargains and keeping it about 70/30 gold/silver.

Lets see how this thing develops!

[Markh]

@HawkHybrid Fiat cannot be classed as money it doesn't fit the criteria to be called money. As for risk they chose not a risky asset.... but because they over leveraged themselves. As I said there is no risk in PM's it been proven to hold it's value for thousands of years.. this is basic stuff pal. 

Not going to bother with this dead end conversation anymore as history and time are on my side. ?

[kimchi]

22 minutes ago, Markh said:

Not going to bother with this dead end conversation anymore as history and time are on my side.

Seeing as you have seemingly have no idea about either history or time, much less be able (or prepared?) to even answer the most basic of questions in response to what you've posted on this thread I think you've made the right decision, for all our sanity lol!

Anyway! Now that absolute hogwash is out the way let's forget all that and continue!

46 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

Thanks for all the input guys, looks like I will still be stacking some silver coins while the EU vat situation is available, getting bullion sovs and dipping my toe in the numi gold coin pool here and there. Looking out for bargains and keeping it about 70/30 gold/silver.

Lets see how this thing develops!

70/30 gold/silver is a very strong ratio! I probably have about 50/50 in present fiat value which I'm uncomfortable with - I want lots more silver! I'd like to get back to 30/70 myself and hope to be able to do that soon, as when (if) a price reset occurs I think silver will be the winner myself (just mvho!). Be interested to hear your strategy behind so much gold

[HawkHybrid]

22 minutes ago, Markh said:

As I said there is no risk in PM's it been proven to hold it's value for thousands of years.. this is basic stuff pal. 

I don't agree with this. if silver is currently undervalued versus

gold and have been for much of the last 10 years during times

which the gsr have been 60+(historically under 20) then silver

cannot have held it's value over this 10 year period? or are you

saying that gold exceeded it's store of value by a factor of 3 ?

history is always in the making. there was a time when the

earth is flat is an indisputable fact spanning many generations.

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

I think 70/30 gold/silver is a good ratio for newer stackers.

usually mistakes in gold are not as costly % wise. as long

as you check and update your strategy as your experience

and understanding improves, you should be able to move

to a ratio that is uniquely tailored for yourself. the thing with

sovereigns is if half way through I decided I wanted a higher

% of my stack in silver. I can currently sell sovereigns and

buy the required silver at a small cost to reposition myself.

the same can't be said the other way round. selling silver to

buy more gold can be much more expensive. imo being

conservative and having more in gold allows for flexibility.

 

 

I vote sovereigns because we don't know what the future

will bring.

 

HH 

[Stu]

Keep in mind when concerned that vat may not be avoided to silver after Brexit, vat was only removed from gold to comply with the eu and they may reinstate the lovely tax to investment gold. 

[kimchi]

We're all different, and all the better for it - the many discussion on here have taught me so much (and I have a long way to go, but I know that I'm already much more knowledgeable for the time I have spent on here!)

As a new 'stacker' I wouldn't even touch gold personally until I had as much silver as I could afford/store first, and then drip feed small quantities into gold after that while still keeping up my silver buying (especially at the price it's still at). I'd like to be at 30/70 but have dipped a bit too heavily into semi-numismatic gold recently - I aim to correct this asap!

[ilovesilverireallydo]

Depends how well you play the game, it’s not just about pure stacking, to truly hedge your bets you need to plan what an urgent exit will cost you and what a gradual exit looks like. 

I contsantly churn my stack, selling the stuff with any premium over spot on eBay when they have offers, then buying a balance of cheap at spot junk and some more high end stuff. Rinse and repeat. I churn gold coins when I get them cheap, and turn them to Silver which is sold then buy more gold etc etc 

I am not a massive buyer, due to recent house purchase keeping liquid cash levels low. But even with only a couple of hundred quid a month to play with, I turned 300oz Silver to  330oz by this method. It does help that I work in Birmingham so the jewellery quarter can often be a good source of saleable stuff. 

[Markh]

@HawkHybridSeeing as you have seemingly have no idea about either history or time, much less be able (or prepared?) to even answer the most basic of questions in response to what you've posted on this thread I think you've made the right decision, for all our sanity lol!

The above doesn't even make sense.. as for I have no history knowledge how did the fiat currency do for the Greek people recently. What about Venezuela how's that working out. Zimbabwe ehh. What you don't think it could happen in a first world country.

you go on about gold to silver ratio's for last 10 years ect ect to try and justify that PM's don't hold there value against fiat.. that's  just plain insane.

well respected and knowledgeable people have proven that the PM's have been manipulated by the banks ect for years, there are a lot more eloquent and knowledgeable people on this forum who'd blind both me and you to the truth of how fiat is and will become worth less and worthless. So I'll say it again for you Dum arses I'll convert my worthless fiat for some real MONEY. 

RISK in PM's don't make me laugh.You need to get off your mother's titty and become a man.

 

[JunkBond]

13 hours ago, kimchi said:

 Be interested to hear your strategy behind so much gold

It's not much of  a strategy really, I consider gold a safe haven and 30% of my funds into silver represents the maximum I am willing to roll the dice on.

Probably doing it all wrong though

[kimchi]

4 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

It's not much of  a strategy really, I consider gold a safe haven and 30% of my funds into silver represents the maximum I am willing to roll the dice on.

Probably doing it all wrong though

Sounds good The percentage represents your comfort level with each metal, it's going to be different for all of us (I expect more from silver so that's more my focus) and often changes over time. I think HH makes an excellent argument for beginners going to low premium/loss gold like Sovs and then onto silver, as he's quite right the other way round would lose a lot of money. A very sound strategy I hadn't considered before.

[KDave]

I have recently sold my stack to use as a decent deposit on a house. Gold rewarded me much more than silver despite buying kilos of silver at the lows, I had about a quarter of it when silver was 9 pound and change an ounce, but because of premiums gold was still more profitable percentage wise. 

I was 80/20 gold to silver. I liked this ratio as HH says silver is speculation gold is investment. 

Starting again I am focusing on bullion sovereigns. I will buy some silver until I have 'enough' physical, then I'll focus on vaulted to save the problems I encountered last time around. 

Silver bars are always preferred to coins as they have many practicle advantages over coins. Stay away from gold bars. Be careful with sovereigns many fakes are known but it's easy to tell. Good luck.  

[HawkHybrid]

12 hours ago, Markh said:

@HawkHybridSeeing as you have seemingly have no idea about either history or time, much less be able (or prepared?) to even answer the most basic of questions in response to what you've posted on this thread I think you've made the right decision, for all our sanity lol!

The above doesn't even make sense.. as for I have no history knowledge how did the fiat currency do for the Greek people recently. What about Venezuela how's that working out. Zimbabwe ehh. What you don't think it could happen in a first world country.

you go on about gold to silver ratio's for last 10 years ect ect to try and justify that PM's don't hold there value against fiat.. that's  just plain insane.

well respected and knowledgeable people have proven that the PM's have been manipulated by the banks ect for years, there are a lot more eloquent and knowledgeable people on this forum who'd blind both me and you to the truth of how fiat is and will become worth less and worthless. So I'll say it again for you Dum arses I'll convert my worthless fiat for some real MONEY. 

RISK in PM's don't make me laugh.You need to get off your mother's titty and become a man.

 

@Markh whatever,

I've had enough of you implying rude things about me.

 

bulls make money, bears make money, sheeps get

sheared.

 

HH

[kimchi]

@HawkHybrid I think he was mostly trying to insult me mate, can't even be bothered to reply to his nonsense, so I think you've got the right idea! He can't even work out when we are talking about our personal holding ratios compared to the fiat PM ratio of gold to silver, so I give up.

@JunkBond sorry we've had a few 'tensions' on this thread for some reason - it's not usually like this here!

4 hours ago, KDave said:

I have recently sold my stack to use as a decent deposit on a house. Gold rewarded me much more than silver despite buying kilos of silver at the lows, I had about a quarter of it when silver was 9 pound and change an ounce, but because of premiums gold was still more profitable percentage wise. 

I was 80/20 gold to silver. I liked this ratio as HH says silver is speculation gold is investment. 

Starting again I am focusing on bullion sovereigns. I will buy some silver until I have 'enough' physical, then I'll focus on vaulted to save the problems I encountered last time around. 

Silver bars are always preferred to coins as they have many practicle advantages over coins. Stay away from gold bars. Be careful with sovereigns many fakes are known but it's easy to tell. Good luck.  

Fascinating stuff @KDave, thanks so much for this, very very insightful (as you have been through the whole process of stacking then cashing in).

Was your original silver mainly in bars? If so when selling you'd be much closer tied to spot than wise coin investments no? Would like to hear more of your story very much if you don't mind sharing!