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Calling all seasoned stackers


JunkBond

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Nobody wants to waste precious time or money so I am asking all you veteran stackers who have been battling it out in the trenches for a few years with silver.

If you were starting now would you still bother with silver as opposed to gold, have you given up on silver breaking free and going to the moon.

Or do you still have the faith, what ratio would you recommend investing gold/silver.

Questions, questions  :unsure:

Thanks

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I've not been doing this long but I invest a small fixed pound amount at 4:1 in favour of gold each month (mostly for storage and liquidity reasons). I'm not one for timing the market and I have more of a 'set and forget' mentality. This may change as I learn more! 

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29 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

Nobody wants to waste precious time or money so I am asking all you veteran stackers who have been battling it out in the trenches for a few years with silver.

If you were starting now would you still bother with silver as opposed to gold, have you given up on silver breaking free and going to the moon.

Or do you still have the faith, what ratio would you recommend investing gold/silver.

Questions, questions  :unsure:

Thanks

Started with silver bullion non vat from Estonia. Moved to Au, then caught the modern semi numismatic bug.most of this year's funds have gone on coins like the silver Krugerrand proof or star wars proofs or CIF poppy ect ect. Next year i will get into sovereigns just straight BU ones. May be the odd bit of silver too as l like silver more than gold.

 

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I started with silver many years ago from sarnia silver before the tax rules were changed but now I am 100% gold.

I think with VAT on silver its not the best choice in the UK, also if you accumulated a decent sized stack it will take a long time to piece out to get the best price as a dealer will only offer prices based on spot minus the VAT you paid.

I would hold physical gold and possibly take a silver position on something like bullionvault that is VAT free and enables you shift large quantities instantly.

 

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For ease of holding it must be gold every time. 

If you acquire a big stack, for ease of moving it around it has to be gold.

For ease of selling without the potential of significant loss of premium paid, it would be gold.

If you are concerned about milk spots and tarnishing, it is gold.

So why would you ever consider silver? That is a good question. 

The gains in silver can be significant. The selling price of most gold coins closely tracks the price of gold. With silver there can be very big premiums if you have the right coins. This at the same time creates the potential for big losses if you are forced to sell. 

Silver is grossly undervalued. Buying a few coins will not break the bank. It is more affordable. Having more coins might seen great but at the same time you have to store them safely. This can become a problem.

The reason i have silver is i am certain the price of precious metals will very significantly increase in a price reset. i can see the steps towards that happening right now, so i am happy to hold my silver.

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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If I started again I would have had a foundation of sovereigns topped up with a few nice 1ozers every few months to keep it interesting. My 1oz silver coins are a pain up the arse due to spotting, storage and continual price drops. However I will give you a completely different answers next summer if silver starts acting like a crypto and makes me a fortune!

If you do go down the silver route then I stick to the sealed rolls of Perth mint coins. They are easy to store, tend not to tarnish and would do someone some damage if they tried to steal them off you (clench the roll and punch!).

Currently stacking 10oz Unas and Britannia bars 

 

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Stacking silver never seriously interested me; 1500oz of silver would be so much more difficult to store, move around and sell vs 20oz of gold 

I don't think I could call myself a stacker now, I'm more a very small scale numismatic opportunist 

I don't feel compelled to buy anything, I just wait for the right coins to come along that I think have a chance or being worth well beyond their issue price

In the past year I've only really purchased three things of note

  • 2017 proof sovereign,
  • 2017 SOTD plain edge garter design sovereign
  •  2017 Indian sovereign (when they were for sale not too much over spot)

I should trust myself more and buy multiple of things because all three were a very good bet

You can't control spot price, I feel like there's a lot more control of your destiny with numismatic stuff, I like it not being a total gamble. 

In summary: I would tell myself don't buy anything, just learn about numismatic coins, modern and old, and wait for interesting new releases and deals to present themselves

 

 

 

 

 

 

Help thread for members new to silver/gold stacking/collecting

The Money Printing Myth the Fed can't and don't money print - Deflation ahead, not inflation 

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I've come to realize its a marathon not a sprint.  Whether its silver or gold, its only a part of an investing strategy.  Go into it with the attitude of maintaining purchasing power in the long haul, not hoping for some moon shot due to collapse of the dollar or whatever.  Its a slow accumulation of wealth over time.

In that mindset, gold is more convenient.  But having both is a good plan imo. 

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Just now, shortstack68 said:

Not sure why you'd want for issue price, weren't these going to be the best of the bunch? I don't see Rwandan Roosters at issue prices nor the original 2017 Sovs, prices rise with demand yet i don't think anyone bit the sellers hand off to buy any of them.

So i assume when you come to sell (whenever that may be) all your coins will be sold for issue prices?

 

I'm asking why you suggest I buy more SOTD plain edge if they're for sale, unless they were very cheap? (issue price)

Lets not turn this thread into your hate for them :P already know you hate them

But looking at Ebay prices, you should already be eating humble pie and admitting you're wrong, not carrying on. 

Help thread for members new to silver/gold stacking/collecting

The Money Printing Myth the Fed can't and don't money print - Deflation ahead, not inflation 

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Cut your teeth on small gold coins. Sovereigns are more affordable, tax free, easy to sell and can be got for around spot price. 

If you can get silver at or near spot price get it.

Be an opportunist. If a good value coin comes up here or elsewhere that you like then get it.

ALWAYS remember that one day you will probably sell the coin you are looking at so get a feel for what sells and more importantly what doesn't.

This will sort your investment side out. If you have a collector bone in your body then do as Kman says, look out for collector coins which you think will do well in the future. These will be the ones you could make most money. You will see people here talking about this sort of coin. Get on board these quickly once you have a feel for the right stuff, their prices can run away with themselves but don't get carried away - beware fads and hype.  

There is skill and experience in doing all this. Watch the forum, look at what others are buying and decide on each - was that a good buy? - why might it be a bad buy?

Try to think with your head not your heart, so educate your head. 

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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1 minute ago, JunkBond said:

Thanks @Kman

I thought this might lead to me having to get my head around numi's, getting a bit too old to learn a new discipline though! :)

I think you just naturally soak up a lot of information reading the forum and watching YouTube videos etc

You learn what coins call out to you and then it's a pleasure learning more about them, rather than a chore. 

Help thread for members new to silver/gold stacking/collecting

The Money Printing Myth the Fed can't and don't money print - Deflation ahead, not inflation 

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I've set myself a target of hitting 1000oz of silver and I'm 3/4's of the way there, I was an equal gold and silver stacker but I've totally focussed on silver ever since the Brexit announcement just in case access to the EU tax reduced silver comes to an end which I realise might well not be the case.  Once I hit my 1000 target or if the tax reduced silver does stop then it's nothing but gold from then on forward.

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56 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Cut your teeth on small gold coins. Sovereigns are more affordable, tax free, easy to sell and can be got for around spot price. 

If you can get silver at or near spot price get it.

Be an opportunist. If a good value coin comes up here or elsewhere that you like then get it.

ALWAYS remember that one day you will probably sell the coin you are looking at so get a feel for what sells and more importantly what doesn't.

This will sort your investment side out. If you have a collector bone in your body then do as Kman says, look out for collector coins which you think will do well in the future. These will be the ones you could make most money. You will see people here talking about this sort of coin. Get on board these quickly once you have a feel for the right stuff, their prices can run away with themselves but don't get carried away - beware fads and hype.  

There is skill and experience in doing all this. Watch the forum, look at what others are buying and decide on each - was that a good buy? - why might it be a bad buy?

Try to think with your head not your heart, so educate your head. 

This is true I've followed some suggestions from this forum. I have purchased things, that I think will do well too. Also I try to buy for the big markets in Asia or north America, examples are the figure of 8 dragon coin or the star wars coins, Coca cola bottle cap ect

The smaller mints that are up and coming are also of interest you never know.. ones of these could be the next big thing....a long  shot but he who dares. At the end of the day it's only worthless fiat I'm wasting.?

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2 minutes ago, Markh said:

At the end of the day it's only worthless fiat I'm wasting.

you're giving up the chance to invest the fruits of your hard

labour into something that should give you on average a

better gain without the skyrocket potential.

 

imo silver is speculation and gold is investment.

ask how many of us forum stackers bought at what may

turn out to be the lows of 2015-2016. then ask those

people how many are in the black if they sold all their

bullion silver to dealers now. silver may be up 40% from

it's dec 2015 lower price but it's going to take a much longer

time frame and a bigger rise before many on here see real

profits. selling on the forums is great if you can do it but

takes time effort. why is 40% silver less valuable than 92.5%

silver?(because it takes more time and money to get the

silver out for any potential industrial use)

silver spot price movement is difficult to predict and unless

you get it bang on takes a lot of time to turn a profit.

having said that I don't regret buying silver, not yet anyway.

 

HH

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7 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

you're giving up the chance to invest the fruits of your hard

labour into something that should give you on average a

better gain without the skyrocket potential.

 

imo silver is speculation and gold is investment.

ask how many of us forum stackers bought at what may

turn out to be the lows of 2015-2016. then ask those

people how many are in the black if they sold all their

bullion silver to dealers now. silver may be up 40% from

it's dec 2015 lower price but it's going to take a much longer

time frame and a bigger rise before many on here see real

profits. selling on the forums is great if you can do it but

takes time effort. why is 40% silver less valuable than 92.5%

silver?(because it takes more time and money to get the

silver out for any potential industrial use)

silver spot price movement is difficult to predict and unless

you get it bang on takes a lot of time to turn a profit.

having said that I don't regret buying silver, not yet anyway.

 

HH

Any chance of putting that in legible english please.?

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Today silver stackers cutting their first teeth are in a fortunate position compared to 'seasoned stackers'.
Firstly there are numerous sellers offering a huge selection of coins compared to a few years ago.
There is a forum like this that supplies lots of information so if you have paid attention you won't pay silly prices anymore.
You can buy from various identified suppliers in the EU essentially VAT free ( only until after Brexit ).
Before the differential VAT scheme was adopted VAT on silver coins in Germany was only 7% but 19% on bars.
If you knew where to buy in Germany you saved lots but I started buying on eBay Germany as there weren't the current suppliers around.
The silver price has been manipulated to artificial lows compared to gold - see the historic gold / silver ratio.

With silver relatively cheap I would definitely load up the truck right now.
You can buy gold anytime and the price will always be a couple of percent over spot.
If you are starting your stacking addiction hoping to make future gains then you are assuming gold will rise in price.
Selling gold will only ever give you the dealer prices as buyers are smarter / through the forum etc.

Not everyone can buy silver as cheaply as we informed forum stackers - we know where to go and how to minimise shipping costs by ordering more than just a few coins.
Jo Public however wanting to buy a single coin however see a price that includes VAT and some margin so the potential to sell your silver immediately and make a small profit is already there. The effort however is something to bear in mind selling one coin at a time but then if you are retired it might get you out of the house to visit the post office more frequently.

Personally I cannot see any fundamental reason for the gold silver ratio to be stagnating at its current high levels so my tea-leaves predict considerable upside in silver sometime in the next few years. Don't forget you will not be able to buy VAT free ( or differential VAT ) coins after Brexit so everyone will be seeing an approximate 15% increase and therefore a potential profit on pre-Brexit inventory. Unfortunately there is no-one on planet Earth that knows how gold and silver prices will be next week never mind in years to come. There are many experts that will tell you their predictions but they cannot make any guarantees either and the probability of getting their forecasts wrong is 50%. You are on your own so make your own judgments and don't put all your eggs in one basket; only invest up to 10-15% of your total assets or what you can afford to loose in part value without forcing a fire-sale to pay bills.

 

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18 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

those worthless fiat represents time that you've spent at

work.

 

HH

Yep you have only so much return for your energy (for most people this will largely be in the form of fiat), so if you do your best to make sure you buy worthwhile assets (not just in PMs imho) to hedge as best you can against potential economic trouble, inflation and a revaluation of PMs (pick and choose those which apply to you) then it is not 'worthless fiat' yet, and you shouldn't be 'wasting money', ever.

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silver is an all or nothing game. it takes time but gains

can be big. gold is a store of value and is valuable as

an insurance during the time that you hold it. silver by

contrast performs poorly as an insurance and store of

value. if you ever need currency before silver reaches

your target price, then things can look ugly.

imo silver represents an industrial metal. that doesn't

mean it can't rise faster when people make the flight

to gold for insurance. if you currently have none I

would buy some silver to go with gold as it gives a

better idea of both metals.

 

HH

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Our 'fiat', sterling is not worthless yet!

It's the only form of currency to pay your rent or buy a pint.

I'm reminded of a Kiyosaki tale which i'll paraphrase 'cos my memory is weak.

He was stationed in Vietnam during the American war and wanted to buy some goods.

He only had a large US bill but approached a street seller for some goods.

He offered the US bill, which was gladly taken.

The trader then scurried across the road to a gold seller and bought some gold with it.

When she returned, she gave him his goods and the change in Vietnam dong which was truly 'worthless' at that time.

:)

Technically, alcohol is a solution..

'It [socialism] poses a growing threat, however unintentional, to the freedom of this country, for there is no freedom where the State totally controls the economy. Personal freedom and economic freedom are indivisible. You can’t have one without the other. You can’t lose one without losing the other.'

"There is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money"

Let not England forget her precedence of teaching nations how to live.

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The only thing that gives fiat value is the FAITH you put in it. I put my faith in my family and stack. As too buying the PM's I can now use bitcoin... so in my eyes it's worthless fiat.you either choose to be behind the curve or in front

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