Gold distorting UK trade figures

[augur]

@Pipers Have a look at these figures and bear in mind that there are 25,000-30,000 vacancies to be filled in for nurses. Before Brexit there was a net influx EU nurses at a rate of 10,500/year, this has changed to 3,500 leaving/year. 

https://www.nmc.org.uk/globalassets/sitedocuments/special-reports/nmc-eu-report-june-2017.pdf

I think this shows that there is a quite measurable effect in frontline staff in the NHS. The weak pound is a direct effect of the Brexit and the lack of security adds to it. But I have to agree with @jacksj1 that the system did government policy are letting the NHS even more down than the Brexit. 

5 hours ago, Pipers said:

As far as Gold goes it does not surprise me that londons gold exports are such a significant proportion of the UK's export figures because the UK does not make anything any more and it is extremely low in productivity because of the bull sh-t jobs that are in the UK. 

Could you elaborate on those jobs as I couldn't follow your thought there?

[sixgun]

15 hours ago, augur said:

@Pipers Have a look at these figures and bear in mind that there are 25,000-30,000 vacancies to be filled in for nurses. Before Brexit there was a net influx EU nurses at a rate of 10,500/year, this has changed to 3,500 leaving/year. 

https://www.nmc.org.uk/globalassets/sitedocuments/special-reports/nmc-eu-report-june-2017.pdf

I think this shows that there is a quite measurable effect in frontline staff in the NHS. The weak pound is a direct effect of the Brexit and the lack of security adds to it. But I have to agree with @jacksj1 that the system did government policy are letting the NHS even more down than the Brexit. 

Could you elaborate on those jobs as I couldn't follow your thought there?

There was a time when nurses did not have to do a degree. i remember this time and was able to compare the before and after. The nurses before were better. They got on with looking after patients. i do not understand why there are shortages or rather should i say there should be no shortages. The issue is the government is not training enough nurses and have been importing foreign nurses b/c it is easier and in the short term cheaper. i expect this is a deliberate policy to make us dependent on foreign nurse so politicians can trot out their usual clap trap about immigration. If there is a shortage of nurses then courses should be fully funded with maintenance grants, free hospital accommodation and all fees covered.

What happened to training our own people? We should have no shortages. Close and or slash the budgets of useless university courses, Urban Dance, Women's Studies, indeed so many Arts degrees are a waste of breath. Most university students should never have gone there. If they were trained to do useful jobs doing productive things, the country would be miles further forward. 

[Pipers]

@augur

Bull s-it jobs are jobs made up by government or subsisided by government that are not needed for example 16 hrs brushing up hair in a hair dressers for £500 Inc rent or washing cars by hand same again for 16hrs then having money topped up also the employer gets in on the act with a nice little earner too!!!  Then you have the Landlord who also earns from bullsh-t jobs because wages are topped up by government. 

Now when it come to Nurses from the EU they can earn more in France, Germany, Belgium, Holland, etc so why would they come here?? Does anyone really think the UK is that good a place for the health professionals?  The problem is retention of what Doctors and Nurses we have not the other way around.  It's the same with engineering now esp if the engineers have good deegrees and are experienced.  The brain drain is getting worse in the UK because of the weak £ low wages and high house prices. 

 

[Pipers]

How do you know its the EU nurse that have left the country??  You are mixing up a weak £ and brexit vote and UK nurses leaving the profession for better paid jobs or going to live in different countries or EU nurses leaving or  a mix. Any way my point is valid why would any nurse want to come here when they get paid more in Europe and housing is cheaper. 

 

[augur]

6 hours ago, Pipers said:

How do you know its the EU nurse that have left the country??  You are mixing up a weak £ and brexit vote and UK nurses leaving the profession for better paid jobs or going to live in different countries or EU nurses leaving or  a mix. Any way my point is valid why would any nurse want to come here when they get paid more in Europe and housing is cheaper. 

How do I know? Because the document attached is a special report on EU nurses by the Nursing and Midwifery Council?

And health professionals did earn 20% more before the pound dropped the day of the Brexit results, so I think that there is a correlation.

Reasons to come:

1) more responsibilities: GPs do specialist exams (instead of Pediatritions or Gynekologists), Nurses do Juniordoctors work etc.

2) language: after WW II english has become the dominant language in medical and scientific research. 

3) wage: in Eastern Europe you do earn less and if you work extra shifts, you were able to save something meaningful but with the exchange rate dropped by 30% since announcing the referendum...

[Guest]

One of the millions of illogical statements of the hard Brexit crowd is this: EU immigrants are predominantly unskilled cheap labour. Whether it's a fact or a convenient stereotype I'll leave it to you. 

Another statement : there was a time when you didn't need a uni degree to get a certain job, eg nurse, just to name one. Now all these EU nurse come to this country with a degree in hand and force our nurse out of the labour market. Again I'll leave it to you if it's true or not. 

My very simple question is as follows : how can EU migrants be unskilled and too skilled at the same time? Can anybody apply some logic? I haven't seen any so far from the hard Brexit crowd and quite frankly I don't expect any. 

But because I am quite confident a logical rebuttal won't come out, I'll give my own explanation. While in Britain a student will have to fork in excess on £9k a year for the privilege of studying at some Mickey Mouse university and achieve a prestigious degree in Science of Screwing and Unscrewing a Light Bulb, other countries in the continent (Germany, Netherlands, Sweden) believe in the value of education and offer free or almost free university education to their youth. Some of these universities (eg the Netherlands) nowadays teach only in English (I know for sure Maastricht does and most universities in Sweden). So when these hordes of smelly and uneducated EU migrants with a degree land on our shores, you'll be forgiven for thinking they offer a better value for money than our own born and bred. 

Now if our prestigious Tory politicians had pursued a policy of offering affordable education instead of 7 years of failed austerity, maybe British employers would look at the indigenous workforce first. But because this has not happened and will not happen soon, how can you still blame either the EU or their citizens for tapping in a labour shortage? 

 

[sixgun]

I hear people saying that the GBP has fallen and somehow this was due to Brexit. The Brexit vote was on 23 June 2016

The GBP was falling against the EUR since the middle of 2015.  There was a sharp fall after the result of the vote but the overall decline was not affected. The exchange rate against the EUR is slightly higher now than it was a year ago.

The GBP against the USD got hit after Brexit but if you pull back from the chart you can see the GBP had been falling since the middle of 2014. GBP has been rising against the USD all this year. 

The GBP had weakening against the EUR for a year before and against the USD 2 years before Brexit. The idea Brexit has killed the pound is government and controlled media propaganda. 

[KDave]

This thread has been an excellent read chaps!

Allow me to attempt a logical answer to the previous question if a bit off topic. 

Not every EU migrant coming into the UK have the same qualifications hence some are skilled and some are unskilled. The problem is in the balance, over which we have no control. It's that simple. Control is required so that the citizens of the UK are not disadvantaged by immigration but benefit from it. For example, a person with no skill has equal right to compete for native work of which there is no shortage and push wages down to the detriment of the locals. In worst case they are unable to find work and become an economic burden. Even if they find work, wages may be so suppresed that the overall benefit is negative when schools, nhs, housing benefit are all taken into account. Even a skilled worker can be placed in the same scenario if the work is not available and suppress wages or becone a jobless burden. This is happening whether you like to admit the problem or not, hence the rise of ukip and the vote to leave the eu. If we had control over immigration, shortages could be addressed and oversupply, along with all of the social and economic problems that brings, could be avoided. 

I do agree that we should be training our own first. Hopefully we will see some changes from the pressure labour is putting on the Tories with their free education push and the need for skilled immigration in certain sectors will be reduced. 

[sixgun]

47 minutes ago, KDave said:

I do agree that we should be training our own first. Hopefully we will see some changes from the pressure labour is putting on the Tories with their free education push and the need for skilled immigration in certain sectors will be reduced. 

The problem is none of the parties are working for the indigenous people. The elected politicians are servants of the people but they do not behave like that. Jeremy Corbyn has been corrupted. It was alright spouting from the back benches but i see he pushes the utterly discredited and damaging Global Warming agenda [Climate Change is meaningless b/c the climate is always changing and always has]. His brother, Piers Corbyn is an expert in climate, a 100% real, uncorrupted expert. Piers is a vocal and authoritative critic of the Climate Change cult.  A couple of hours chatting with his brother would put Jeremy Corbyn right. Piers does not know why his brother is pushing the Climate Change agenda. Jeremy Corbyn from the backbenches could see the EU for what it is. Now he is a supporter of the EU. It is still the bad idea it always was and he will know this. Man-made Climate Change is still a pack of lies, 96% of actual experts DON'T agree with and Jeremy Corbyn will know this. He cannot be ignorant of what his brother is saying.  

So on those two provable grounds, Jeremy Corbyn has been corrupted and is now a puppet. Jeremy Corbyn is at least more honest about allowing every goat herder in Somalia into the country, the Tories pretend to want to control immigration but do nothing.

Nothing is going to change, it is a race to the bottom. Keep stacking and look out for your friends and families. Build links in your community, know how to be self reliant and supporting. That will help you in the end, listening to traitors is a waste of time. 

[Guest]

Wages have been driven down in the last 10-15 years. This for sure. But it wasn't immigration. It was the progressive erosion of workers rights, started by Tony Blair, then Gordon Brown and finally David Cameron. Zero hours, anybody? Compulsory (and unpaid) work experience for the unemployed, anybody? Work trials, anybody? Companies being able to sack without just cause up to 24 months into a contract? I used to earn decent money 10 years ago. Now my former job is filled by freshly graduated youngsters at £0 cost to my former employer. Ah, and they are all indigenous! Really immigration did not even bruise my former sector at all. 

And the NHS, who bankrupted it? The immigrants? Or the PFIs? And progressive shrinking of its budget. Please! Blaming everything on immigrants is not just unfair. It's really lazy thinking. I perceive a lot of anti establishment sentiment on this board. Yet, you seem to swallow the establishment's rationale hook, line and sinker! Just my two gold pence!

[KDave]

The establishment has been telling us how good uncontrolled immigration has been for the nation under those leaders you mention and up until very recently. If you look at the immigration figures, specifically from new eu member countries from the era of the politicians you mention, the picture will paint itself. Ignoring the problems uncontrolled immigration has brought is part of the reason we are where we are in terms of brexit in the UK, le front national in France, Trump in America. The erosion of workers rights may be part of picture but it is not the whole picture let's not kid ourselves. Lazy indeed. 

[darrol]

 I think brexit came about for many resoans not just immigration although I do think it was one of the main resoans ,   personally I wanted  out of the EU for many years and I never thought it would have been this hard to leave,   I don’t blame immigration for everything but try telling that to the people that lost there jobs or find it hard to get a job   ,  I think the biggest change was to low paid jobs or low skilled  jobs taken   .

[Pipers]

It is a mistake to think that the political left of centre are for the EU they are equally split as are the political right! 

The EU has used labour from poorer countries to reduce labour costs in the richer EU countries, this has been deliberate.  I do not blame the immigrant themselves but blame the Government plus EU and the Cabal that it is run for which is the major corporations.  This is not a free market ( right of centre old conservative) or social democratic ( old labour) it's a neo-liberal soft fascist (not racist) .  The EU is run for the benefit of corporatism, not for the people of the EU.  Workers are purposely kept in a state of insecurity wages are kept low as their is excess demand for most jobs unless you are well skilled /educated.  All this brings bigger profits for the corporations.  Remember the EU is not a free trade area ask anyone who wants to import something from outside of the EU they have to pay tariffs, even Gold which is supposed to be tariff free is not (you can claim it back but it takes a lot of effort and is  that long it's not worth it for most people) unless you bring it your self personally.

I voted to leave the EU I have no regrets I am in favour of free markets plus no tax dodging by anyone including corporations as they are a person in law.  I do not mind paying taxes for the old, I'll, disabled, for education, NHS, etc I do not want to pay tax to fund corporations and wealth.