Goldsilver.be laughable company!!

[FlorinCollector]

1 minute ago, shortstack68 said:

If something isn't in stock then probably yes, if they didn't complete the process until later then realise something is out of stock then they'll have to amend it, by hitting the buy button you've agreed to purchase

They then agreed to cancel the order but three months later try for the money. So what would happen in that scenario?

[FlorinCollector]

Just now, shortstack68 said:

They obviously banned your IP for non payment. I can't say why they'd ask for payment after agreeing to cancel though, but as I said, agreeing to purchase is the end process which you obviously did, they can ask for a fee if you cancel due to the volatility of precious metals in the market

They banned my IP today! 3 months after the cancellation. So they have the right to wait throughout my lifetime before trying to get some money ? Theres been a lot of volatility in 3 months obviously.

[Mariner1961]

1 hour ago, Clens92 said:

Unacceptable.  Unfortunately, the cheapest prices seem to go hand in hand with the cheapest customer service - GS.be are the worst for it.  Pay a bit more and go to STG; they're painfully polite.

Don't know about that. I had the exact same experience with STG when they changed details of an order I'd made and I asked to cancel. 

[FlorinCollector]

Just now, Mariner1961 said:

Don't know about that. I had the exact same experience with STG when they changed details of an order I'd made and I asked to cancel. 

Yeh if they change it i dont get how they even have a leg to stand on. Did they try to get losses out of you?

[FlorinCollector]

Just now, shortstack68 said:

Because they are selling thousands of coins per day, if what you ordered had just gone out of stock then they can't sell you something they don't have

Then obviously that voids the order. If they dont have the goods you purchased

[Mariner1961]

13 minutes ago, JCRJM said:

Yeh if they change it i dont get how they even have a leg to stand on. Did they try to get losses out of you?

No, never heard from them again.

[FlorinCollector]

18 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

No, because there is other coins in your order

But they didnt amend price with stock and send new invoice?

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, JCRJM said:

But they didnt amend price with stock and send new invoice?

I have already explained exactly what is happening when you buy something online but you are still a bit confused or have been confused by other comments.

I will run through all the steps. This is what happens - I am in no doubt. This is according to contract law.

The website is an advertisement. In contract law terms in is 'an invitation to treat', here invitation to treat means an invitation to 'behave towards or deal with in a certain way'.

You see the coins they have and indicative prices. 

You gather together the coins you are interested in. 

The website organises prices for the coins but no-one has made an offer, these are still only advertisements. 

This countdown, prices only valid for the next 5 minutes is just a sales pitch. It is just to hype you up to push the send button. 

You submit an order. This is your OFFER. You start the process off, everything beforehand was a sales pitch. 

You have said I will pay £XX for ABC coins.

You may be taken to a webpage saying order confirmed, this is the ACCEPTANCE of your OFFER. An alternative is the email headed up 'GOLDSILVER.BE ORDER CONFIRMED'

This is ACCEPTANCE of your order [OFFER]. There is now a contract.

Under UK law you are not automatically entitled to a full invoice. If you request a full invoice the seller must send you one. This is covered by the Bills of Exchange Act 1882. This must included VAT, exactly what has been sold, addresses blah blah. This is a method how some people have  got rid of parking tickets but that is another post.

Now on the day of your offer you say goldsilver.be told you there was a change in the order. If this came after you got the confirmation email they are welching on the deal, they are in breach of contract. If the change came before the confirmation email they have rejected your offer.

Here is a webpage dealing with the process

http://www.seqlegal.com/blog/offer-and-acceptance-online

[FlorinCollector]

20 minutes ago, sixgun said:

I have already explained exactly what is happening when you buy something online but you are still a bit confused or have been confused by other comments.

I will run through all the steps. This is what happens - I am in no doubt. This is according to contract law.

The website is an advertisement. In contract law terms in is 'an invitation to treat', here invitation to treat means an invitation to 'behave towards or deal with in a certain way'.

You see the coins they have and indicative prices. 

You gather together the coins you are interested in. 

The website organises prices for the coins but no-one has made an offer, these are still only advertisements. 

This countdown, prices only valid for the next 5 minutes is just a sales pitch. It is just to hype you up to push the send button. 

You submit an order. This is your OFFER. You start the process off, everything beforehand was a sales pitch. 

You have said I will pay £XX for ABC coins.

You may be taken to a webpage saying order confirmed, this is the ACCEPTANCE of your OFFER. An alternative is the email headed up 'GOLDSILVER.BE ORDER CONFIRMED'

This is ACCEPTANCE of your order [OFFER]. There is now a contract.

Under UK law you are not automatically entitled to a full invoice. If you request a full invoice the seller must send you one. This is covered by the Bills of Exchange Act 1882. This must included VAT, exactly what has been sold, addresses blah blah. This is a method how some people have  got rid of parking tickets but that is another post.

Now on the day of your offer you say goldsilver.be told you there was a change in the order. If this came after you got the confirmation email they are welching on the deal, they are in breach of contract. If the change came before the confirmation email they have rejected your offer.

Here is a webpage dealing with the process

http://www.seqlegal.com/blog/offer-and-acceptance-online

Thanks sixgun. No im not confused mate. I just was wondering where shortstacks was going with his thoughts.

[sovereignsteve]

6 hours ago, JCRJM said:

1. i placed order. june 10

2. I receive email saying my order has been changed by merchant. june 10

3. I receive order confirmation. june 10

were you never curious as to what the change was? it could have been something as simple as one item going out of stock and on to back order, to be delivered at a later date, happens all the time in procurement.

the delay in confirming your order could have been due to them checking stock and making sure they could re-stock later.

if it were something along these lines, i would think the contract was made as time scale for delivery wouldn't make any difference to the fact.

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

were you never curious as to what the change was? it could have been something as simple as one item going out of stock and on to back order, to be delivered at a later date, happens all the time in procurement.

the delay in confirming your order could have been due to them checking stock and making sure they could re-stock later.

if it were something along these lines, i would think the contract was made as time scale for delivery wouldn't make any difference to the fact.

The crucial bit is:

"I receive email saying my order has been changed by merchant. june 10

I receive order confirmation. june 10 "

What was that change?  Goldsilver.be cannot materially change his order, this is his offer. If they could not exactly mirror his order [offer] then they have to reject his offer, they have cancelled the order. What then would usually happen is they will come back and say we cannot do XYZ, but we can do ABC. They cannot mirror his offer of XYZ and so are rejecting it and they make a counter offer of ABC. He has the option to accept or reject this counter offer. Silence does not [generally] amount to acceptance [of an offer] Felthouse v Bindley. So if goldsilver.be had not exactly mirrored his offer [order]  and he had not accepted their counter offer, this is no contract. They would not be in a position to send an email of confirmation [acceptance], what are they accepting? Their own offer? They had rejected his.

If what the OP makes out is correct, I suspect goldsilver.be could not exactly match the order so they arranged something else and when that was nailed down an automatic email confirming the order was sent out. This is not binding, there is no contract. They are confirming an order they created and not what the OP intended.

He came back and asks to cancel the order but this is not his original order so there is nothing to cancel. There will be what the change in the order amounts to in the emails. I wonder if that actually amounts to a material change which is why goldsilver.be has rather belatedly got a bit shirty.

[sovereignsteve]

35 minutes ago, sixgun said:

What was that change?

exactly my point.

 

36 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Goldsilver.be cannot materially change his order, this is his offer. If they could not exactly mirror his order [offer] then they have to reject his offer, they have cancelled the order. What then would usually happen is they will come back and say we cannot do XYZ, but we can do ABC

again, exactly. my point is that the change will have been something insignificant. what company changes an order of XYZ to ABC and then unilaterally confirms it? C'mon it just doesn't happen. Neither does a bullion company ever say we cannot offer XYZ as you ordered but we can send you ABC instead?

what a company ordering and invoice system calls a change is probably not what we would call a material change, hence my assertion it could simply be a stock/backorder issue. an automated system would flag this as a change. they would not have confirmed the order if the change was of a material consequence.

[FlorinCollector]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

exactly my point.

 

again, exactly. my point is that the change will have been something insignificant. what company changes an order of XYZ to ABC and then unilaterally confirms it? C'mon it just doesn't happen. Neither does a bullion company ever say we cannot offer XYZ as you ordered but we can send you ABC instead?

what a company ordering and invoice system calls a change is probably not what we would call a material change, hence my assertion it could simply be a stock/backorder issue. an automated system would flag this as a change. they would not have confirmed the order if the change was of a material consequence.

Hi mate. i honestly couldnt tell you what the change was. Simply because I cant remember. At the time i probably thought i wouldnt forget but honestly i dont know. Also the emails from gs.be just say a change has been made look on our website for the change. So i couldnt even tell you what it was now. I can show the email if you like its not a big deal to me. Sixgun has explained it to me just to make sure i dont owe money. But the real reason for the post was just to show how cheeky they were for little reason imo. 

[airmac]

I got a question on this. Isn't there like an expiration time for how long you can wait bevor making demands to a customer?

[FlorinCollector]

16 minutes ago, airmac said:

I got a question on this. Isn't there like an expiration time for how long you can wait bevor making demands to a customer?

Im not to sure mate. Kinda new to the whole process of whats happened.

[westminstrel]

I feel for you @JCRJM. It must be stressful to have to deal with this sort of stuff  I sincerely hope it all ends well for you.

And thanks for mentioning this here. Seeing the way they talk to their customers, I will steer clear of them.

[Guest]

See on my previous threads. In one case with these cowboys they even strenuously denied I had sent the money in. It took me a couple of phone calls to Belgium (that cost me a few pounds) that they finally found the money somewhere in their account. When I then asked them what I had done to deserve that treatment, I received the bitter email some of you have seen. Then Eva from GS emailed me the day later apologising for her  colleagues saying they are overworked and many customers try to rip them off. But why should I care? It's not my problem if other people try to rip them off. This is a pathetic excuse! If they have a margin of profit of 5 euro per 1000 euro again this is their problem!

[morezone]

One thing to note is the answer given to GS.BE as to why the payment was never made is different to the actual reason later corrected to us by the OP.  Their response wasn't the greatest but if they'd looked at his order in depth (may not be possible) or was given the correct reason, their response might have been different.

[FlorinCollector]

2 hours ago, morezone said:

One thing to note is the answer given to GS.BE as to why the payment was never made is different to the actual reason later corrected to us by the OP.  Their response wasn't the greatest but if they'd looked at his order in depth (may not be possible) or was given the correct reason, their response might have been different.

I doubt it. After this il gonna stop talking about it because i dont think its worth it. So to be clear. They agreed to cancel the order in june that was the end of it no contact nothing. Then yesterday sparked the cheek.

[sovereignsteve]

4 hours ago, savoyard said:

Then Eva from GS emailed me the day later apologising for her  colleagues saying they are overworked and many customers try to rip them off. But why should I care? It's not my problem if other people try to rip them off. This is a pathetic excuse! If they have a margin of profit of 5 euro per 1000 euro again this is their problem!

In a way it's all our problem. There is no excuse for poor and rude CS but if it is a consequence of a company growing too quickly and having to recruit new staff who don't have the skills or haven't had the correct training, it is a problem and that company will lose customers.

Growing a business is always the difficult part and how the company deals with it defines their future success. Not everyone gets it right.

In the process of growing, costs can escalate and therefore profit margins need to widen. So more expensive silver for us

As been said before; with GS.BE you know what you will get, the cheapest prices with almost a certainty you will get your coins but with poor CS. The Ryanair of bullion dealers. If you can't deal with this, buy elsewhere and pay a bit more. The buyer chooses.