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Silverstackeruk

Milk spot on my Britannia

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It will harm the value, unfortunately.

The prevailing thought at the moment is that milkspotting occurs due to chemicals used in the minting process and is very much 'luck of the draw'.  I don't know if vacuum sealing will have an impact or not.

 

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To me its a big no no to buy coins that has developed milkspots as the condition is just going to get worse... Thats the reason why I sent all my silver proof coins to be slabbed and stored in a airtight box with dehumidifier than could be regenerated by charging to keep humidity preferably less than 20% together with some anti-tarnish strips from 3M as a safe measure.... It's a shame really as this coin probably cost you a bomb when you bought it.... 

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Just now, Clens92 said:

It will harm the value, unfortunately.

The prevailing thought at the moment is that milkspotting occurs due to chemicals used in the minting process and is very much 'luck of the draw'.  I don't know if vacuum sealing will have an impact or not.

 

I have read it somewhere even contaminants in the air like dust that somehow ended up on the surface of the coin could also develop milkspot on the coin as a study done by the Perth Mint found out that air contaminant could react with humidity in air to develop silver chloride (white spots).... and personally I had experience like this as well especially from slabbed coins by NGC from major American dealers where the coin arrived perfectly fine except for a spec of dust on it which you would normally assume its fine but guess what a few months down the road you could see spots start to form around the spec of dust. There might be other causes but for those who bought graded coins directly from dealers make sure have a really close look on the coins before accepting them.

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vaccum sealed will slow the milk spot  by about 80% , my rough estimate , however u will still get some milk spot 

add on top 

vac seal does not prevent milk spot once the coin slabed because lower pressure inside the slab 

Edited by fehk2001

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24 minutes ago, HyHy said:

To me its a big no no to buy coins that has developed milkspots as the condition is just going to get worse... Thats the reason why I sent all my silver proof coins to be slabbed and stored in a airtight box with dehumidifier than could be regenerated by charging to keep humidity preferably less than 20% together with some anti-tarnish strips from 3M as a safe measure.... It's a shame really as this coin probably cost you a bomb when you bought it.... 

Yeah I have some graded ones which have milk spotted also..I've not used anti tarnish strips as there all in air tight containers.

Edited by Silverstackeruk

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I think it pretty much destroys the value, I will give you £100 for it as I am a nice guy :P 

Joking aside, lets be honest, most of them are likely to develop milk spots 

I personally don't think it massively harms the value, If you put it on Ebay I'm sure you would still get a fantastic price 

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Sorry to hijack

I have also discovered similar spotting on my Silver Krugerrand which came back from NGC PF 70.

Does anyone think long term this will still command a decent premium or will it depend on how bad the milk spots are in years to come?

Cheers

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My 2014 silver Britannia has been just kept in the back of a draw in its box the last 3 years

In humidity that room gets to chocolate melting hot and in winter very cold 

It really does seem like if they're going to spot they're going to spot, however you keep them. 

 

Edited by Kman

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Idiotic the rm moved to higher purity levels of silver from sterling silver......idiots.....long term this will harm them. It is all about the high silver content that causes unnecessary  problems with silver. 

Edited by Oldun

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1 hour ago, Oystonout said:

Sorry to hijack

I have also discovered similar spotting on my Silver Krugerrand which came back from NGC PF 70.

Does anyone think long term this will still command a decent premium or will it depend on how bad the milk spots are in years to come?

Cheers

Any milkspots will destroy the value a numismatic coin.  I would advise that you sell it sooner rather than later; once one milk spot appears more often follow.

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On balance I would sell the coin. From what I have seen nothing will stop this process. If it is a good value bullion coin it is bad enough but a proof it is a disaster. It makes me angry and upset to see it. The mints are charging high prices for these coins and it is a lottery as to whether they will spot and potentially end up worth less than a spot free bullion version.

If I were in North America I would collect the vintage silver bars. They can tarnish all they like, it adds value. 

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46 minutes ago, sixgun said:

On balance I would sell the coin. From what I have seen nothing will stop this process. If it is a good value bullion coin it is bad enough but a proof it is a disaster. It makes me angry and upset to see it. The mints are charging high prices for these coins and it is a lottery as to whether they will spot and potentially end up worth less than a spot free bullion version.

If I were in North America I would collect the vintage silver bars. They can tarnish all they like, it adds value. 

Absolutely agreed on the anger and upset, it's a crime really imo :(

I had 8 spotted and/or dinged silver proof Krugs through my hands (some arrived spotted, others spotted within days) - all went back (two different companies). The one I kept I haven't dared look at since, I don't doubt it has turned too, despite all best efforts.

Isn't there an argument that with more time more will be likely to spot, so hold onto it? I.e. if the spotted population of 70s is (say) 10% now, perhaps in five years' time it will be 50%. Collectors will have kept hold of more of the (few imo) good ones, and new collectors will have an ever-decreasing pool of non-spotted graded examples and possibly forced to accept a spotted version, or have nothing? Therefore you either sell for rock bottom now or (if you can afford to) wait for a slight premium to hopefully return? Plus, it's still an ounce of silver in hand rather than fiat, as long as you have enough of the latter for now.

(Hope that makes sense!)

Edited by kimchi

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I recall Numistacker saying on one of his videos that if he collected silver he thinks he would buy bars. I see him buying silver coins but never see any bars. There is an argument to hold these spotted proof coins if they are already spotted, except there is a big risk they will just develop more spots. I have heard several members say all the coins will develop milk spot eventually, so we will all be in the same boat. I hear it started happening when coins switched to 999 from Sterling. Something happened and it is destroying many of our finest coins. This is why I question why I have any decent coins and especially proofs. I can buy a soft rubber and rub the milk spot away. There is a video where I saw CyberCurtainTwitcher do it I could not see marks on the coin afterwards even when he used a loupe. At least the bullion will look nicer than having those filthy spots on them. This is why I am seriously thinking about collecting gold and vintage bars. Forget all these spotty faced coins stealing my money.

There is of course a chance a process will be developed to remove the spots. Maybe a chemist could do a PhD on milk spot analysis and removal, perfect a technique and make a fortune. But maybe no-one will and we will be crying over a spotted coins for years to come until the price of silver goes to $600/oz and they end up in the melting pot. 

Edited by sixgun

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1 hour ago, kimchi said:

Absolutely agreed on the anger and upset, it's a crime really imo :(

I had 8 spotted and/or dinged silver proof Krugs through my hands (some arrived spotted, others spotted within days) - all went back (two different companies). The one I kept I haven't dared look at since, I don't doubt it has turned too, despite all best efforts.

Isn't there an argument that with more time more will be likely to spot, so hold onto it? I.e. if the spotted population of 70s is (say) 10% now, perhaps in five years' time it will be 50%. Collectors will have kept hold of more of the (few imo) good ones, and new collectors will have an ever-decreasing pool of non-spotted graded examples and possibly forced to accept a spotted version, or have nothing? Therefore you either sell for rock bottom now or (if you can afford to) wait for a slight premium to hopefully return? Plus, it's still an ounce of silver in hand rather than fiat, as long as you have enough of the latter for now.

(Hope that makes sense!)

Made sense to me Kimchi thanks.....

If I can only get a fraction back now for what I paid for it plus grading I might as well take my chances and follow your theory. I don't need to sell it and maybe in 10 years time it will be worth a lot more.

Maybe

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10 minutes ago, Oystonout said:

Made sense to me Kimchi thanks.....

If I can only get a fraction back now for what I paid for it plus grading I might as well take my chances and follow your theory. I don't need to sell it and maybe in 10 years time it will be worth a lot more.

Maybe

I haven't kept an eye on the prices of these spotted, or not. It might be that the only way up if you can afford to hold, either through all these coins spotting eventually or through spot price. If I had one (oh, I do :() I'd just sit on it as a 'curio' for now. Milky or not I only have the one, it's my only Krug, and so it means more to me than anyone would pay me for it right now. And this is so endemic right now and only seems to be getting worse, things might have to change, and folk might have to accept milky coins in future if they want to collect.

@sixgun's rubber eraser trick sounds like it may be OK, but I wouldn't be able to live with myself selling it on personally (except to a big dealer perhaps) without full disclosure. So maybe I'll just sit on mine and give it the quick eraser treatment to 'tart it up' when needed (so I don't feel so bad when I look at it!).

Interestingly, perhaps, all the serial numbers I've seen have been from the late 3000s to the 5000s, maybe some 6000s. I guess the dealers got the early ones, if so there may be a chance those are less likely to spot if it is related to cleaning the planchets at the Mint. It'll be 'interesting' to see what happens with these coins...

Funnily enough I got a great number on the one I kept. I'm in the surreal position where the numbered CoA may be worth as much to someone as the coin itself!!! :wacko:

8 minutes ago, Oystonout said:

Go on mate have a peep

You're asking me to re-dig that 20 foot hole in the garden on a wet and rotten day just to find out I've lost a hundred odd quid? :o There's a word (or two!) for that kind of suggestion!!! :P

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1 hour ago, sixgun said:

I recall Numistacker saying on one of his videos that if he collected silver he thinks he would buy bars. I see him buying silver coins but never see any bars. There is an argument to hold these spotted proof coins if they are already spotted, except there is a big risk they will just develop more spots. I have heard several members say all the coins will develop milk spot eventually, so we will all be in the same boat. I hear it started happening when coins switched to 999 from Sterling. Something happened and it is destroying many of our finest coins. This is why I question why I have any decent coins and especially proofs. I can buy a soft rubber and rub the milk spot away. There is a video where I saw CyberCurtainTwitcher do it I could not see marks on the coin afterwards even when he used a loupe. At least the bullion will look nicer than having those filthy spots on them. This is why I am seriously thinking about collecting gold and vintage bars. Forget all these spotty faced coins stealing my money.

There is of course a chance a process will be developed to remove the spots. Maybe a chemist could do a PhD on milk spot analysis and removal, perfect a technique and make a fortune. But maybe no-one will and we will be crying over a spotted coins for years to come until the price of silver goes to $600/oz and they end up in the melting pot. 

Very old silver coins, sterling silver or bars only. Anything else is just overpriced bullion liable to spot badly imho from pretty much every mint....but if you can show me a pure silver coin in the 21st century by any mint that hasnt had a problem with spotting, Im all ears. The only one that has yet to be a problem for me is the 7 coin silver proof libertad sets, reverse proofs (personally speaking) and the 2016 britannia proofs and reverse proofs in terms of high purity modern coins. Im steering well clear unless just bullion spot prices.

Edited by Oldun

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11 minutes ago, Oldun said:

Very old silver, sterling silver or bars only. Anything else is just overpriced bullion liable to spot badly imho from pretty much every mint....but if you can show me a pure silver coin in the 21st century by any mint that hasnt had a problem with spotting, Im all ears.

None of my bulk Pandas or Kooks from 2015-2017 have spotted yet compared to ones that have been very prone (bullion Brits2016/17, silver proof Krugs, and - a bit bizarrely I thought - Metalor bars, but I don't care about that with them). Pandas going back to 2011 are fine here too.

I thought I'd try out some Somali Elephants and Perth Roos (cheapest bullion at the time) and they're due to arrive tomorrow I think. Reading up it seems like I may well be in for some more 'milky goodness' :wacko:

Edited by kimchi

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4 minutes ago, Oldun said:

Very old silver, sterling silver or bars only. Anything else is just overpriced bullion liable to spot badly imho.

Except some of the Perth Mint products which I have not heard to have spotted I think you are 'spot on' to use a pun. Recent 999 silver is Russian Roulette. I am not overly bothered about the bulk tubes of 1oz coins I have amassed b/c I didn't pay much more than I would have paid for spotty Maples but it is nice coins and proofs that break my heart. 

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