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Myblueheaven

What ..... after Brexit for our Silver & Gold ???

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54 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

No

So how come you have to pay full VAT? I'm asking, because I might be relocating to the continent in the not far future. 

 

Edit: disregard! @augur made it all clear to me. Thanks @augur

Edited by savoyard

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1 hour ago, savoyard said:

Short digression : is there a EU wide political movement or party or lobby which advocates the removal of VAT for silver bullion just like in the USA? Because if there is not any, I'm willing to start one! 

It wouldn't go far in Germany, as you know, they like their tax, my pay slip can vouch for that 😳

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12 hours ago, augur said:

My understanding is that VAT should be charged at the going rate at the point of delivery. So the practice of VAT free silver is not fully kosher as the e.g. German MwSt. of 19% should only be deducted to then apply the UK 20% VAT.

In theory HMRC could always bite back and request the unpaid VAT, which they might. 

In Estonia silver coins do not attract VAT when sold and delivered locally. If an item is sold and delivered to another EU state the seller should apply VAT prevailing in the state sold into. So silver coins sold and delivered to a UK buyer should have 20% VAT applied. The way Celtic Gold for example gets around this is for the buyer to separately purchase courier services in Estonia. Celtic Gold delivers to the courier in Estonia. Job done, no VAT to pay. The courier then takes the silver to the other EU state but at that point the silver is the personal property of the buyer.

The German dealers are probably quietly doing the same on paper. Technically the silver coins are bought and delivered to a courier in Germany. Job done, German taxes apply. 

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If you check the international harmonised codes for import / export you will see that there is no import duty applied on coins whether silver or gold, numismatic, legal tender or otherwise. Leaving the EU will not suddenly see us having to pay import duties on zero rated goods agreed internationally but will end the free movement of goods where VAT has been accounted for in the EU by the seller.

So to summarise - duty is not an issue and is zero today EU and outside the EU.

VAT can be invoiced ( included in the sales price ) in the country of sale e.g. Germany.
The seller can also decide not to charge you VAT but then you are liable to pay VAT when the goods arrive in the UK.
If it is invoiced at a lower percentage than UK VAT then that doesn't matter due to free movement.

Post Brexit the seller will be exporting ( no longer free movement ) and therefore not required to charge VAT so you will have to pay full VAT on import.
 

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31 minutes ago, Pete said:

Post Brexit the seller will be exporting ( no longer free movement ) and therefore not required to charge VAT so you will have to pay full VAT on import.
 

i know someone who has a Dubai company. It is possible to buy silver VAT free. They do not know where you actually take it when you leave the shop.

Edited by sixgun

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3 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i know someone who has a Dubai company. It is possible to buy silver VAT free. They do not know where you actually take it when you leave the shop.

Is this Company trading in the UK ?
If yes perhaps they are not registered for VAT so don't have to charge VAT if having a low turnover.
If yes perhaps they are breaking the law ?

If outside the UK and not charging VAT then the person bringing the silver into the UK becomes a smuggler if not declaring.

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10 minutes ago, Pete said:

Is this Company trading in the UK ?
If yes perhaps they are not registered for VAT so don't have to charge VAT if having a low turnover.
If yes perhaps they are breaking the law ?

If outside the UK and not charging VAT then the person bringing the silver into the UK becomes a smuggler if not declaring.

Nothing has actually been done. i am talking theoretically here. This company does not trade in the UK. It is a Dubs entity, nothing to do with the UK or EU. Silver could be bought somewhere in the EU by the company. Nothing is brought into the EU, it is already in the EU. 

Edited by sixgun

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4 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Nothing has actually been done. i am talking theoretically here. This company does not trade in the UK. It is a Dubs entity, nothing to do with the UK or EU. Silver could be bought somewhere in the EU by the company. Nothing is brought into the EU, it is already in the EU. 

Not necessarily following your thread - sorry.
If you can find a source of silver in the EU then for the next 18 months you can bring it or ship it into the UK without any questions or charges.
If it is outside the EU then it is liable for full VAT unless the coins are collectibles / numismatics when the VAT is reduced to 5%.
Post Brexit you will have to declare it and pay 20% VAT or 5% VAT if you can prove numi etc.

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An non-EU entity [company] buys silver anywhere in the EU for ultimate export. There is no VAT to pay, it is for ultimate export out of the EU or pre/post Brexit UK. i, one, the man next door does not own the silver, the non-EU entity owns the silver. Exported goods do not have to go directly to their ultimate destination and could be held in storage. This is not a viable solution for many. 

The 5% VAT rate on collectors' pieces of numismatic interest is likely the way to go if post Brexit people in the UK were facing 20% VAT on silver coins.

Edited by sixgun

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2 hours ago, PansPurse said:

Just as an aside, the Brexit referendum was advisory only, not legally binding.

It is as you say. The problem is people voted expecting a result. Voted being the key. Democracy is on the line, if the majority are ignored then the precedent is set and democracy is something to be ignored in the future, perhaps law too.

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39 minutes ago, KDave said:

It is as you say. The problem is people voted expecting a result. Voted being the key. Democracy is on the line, if the majority are ignored then the precedent is set and democracy is something to be ignored in the future, perhaps law too.

I take your point, although I think that it'd be more of a threat if a government tried to back out of something that was legally binding.

I mean, manifesto pledges aren't legally binding and people vote expecting them to be enacted, yet how many fall by the wayside?

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2 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

I take your point, although I think that it'd be more of a threat if a government tried to back out of something that was legally binding.

I mean, manifesto pledges aren't legally binding and people vote expecting them to be enacted, yet how many fall by the wayside?

A good point, but in context, this was a yes or no vote, clear cut, rather than a list of promises to fall by the way side. I don't think people will forget about this one if they make it go away. ;)

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3 hours ago, PansPurse said:

Just as an aside, the Brexit referendum was advisory only, not legally binding.

Legally, that is correct. Politically it is absolutely binding though. Far too many people do not think of the consequences of the government ignoring this, you will basically say to a whole section of society (many of whom voted for the first time in their lives) that they do not have the democratic means to change society and that their vote means nothing.

You get a version of UKIP on steroids, or possibly worse.

That's why it will happen, in whatever form that takes.

 

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