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Pampfan

Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads

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19 hours ago, Numistacker said:

I have now been in email correspondence with Pat Stovall from Mexican coin broker about this issue.

He says

“This is a reply I got back this morning from the bank regarding that page:

"Regarding the web page you are referring to, please note that the information is for the “coins and medals in fine metals put into circulation”, this is translated to the number of coins we are selling each month and this includes coins minted in previous years."

I believe the key is "coins and medals". The bank and the mint are forever issuing medals for many different events, and honoring many different individuals for whatever reason. Thus they are included along with the coins.

The bank stands firm on the mintage of the 2017 1/10 oz gold Libertad BU as 300.”

The bank has now confirmed the 300 mintage figure 3 times when asked.

The production figures page and the information contained therein, is still a mystery in my opinion. I do not feel that I have got to the bottom of the figures on this page in anyway, however it is clear that the mint standby the figure of 300 coins at this time.



 

The end of the year figure will be the one to check, Mexico are notorious for dropping the bombshell figures, so, best to let it rest until then, although i'm not sure what they mean by medal in the 1/10th column

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The end of the year figure will be the one to check, Mexico are notorious for dropping the bombshell figures, so, best to let it rest until then, although i'm not sure what they mean by medal in the 1/10th column


Nor me. I still think it could go either way so I will wait till February before considering the mintage final. No plans to sell anyway.

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3 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

 


Nor me. I still think it could go either way so I will wait till February before considering the mintage final. No plans to sell anyway.
 

 

Its a curious one though, as technically they are all medals as they have no denomination on them, so they could be using that as a way around what you wrote above from Pat

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19 hours ago, Numistacker said:

I have now been in email correspondence with Pat Stovall from Mexican coin broker about this issue.

He says

“This is a reply I got back this morning from the bank regarding that page:

"Regarding the web page you are referring to, please note that the information is for the “coins and medals in fine metals put into circulation”, this is translated to the number of coins we are selling each month and this includes coins minted in previous years."

I believe the key is "coins and medals". The bank and the mint are forever issuing medals for many different events, and honoring many different individuals for whatever reason. Thus they are included along with the coins.

The bank stands firm on the mintage of the 2017 1/10 oz gold Libertad BU as 300.”

The bank has now confirmed the 300 mintage figure 3 times when asked.

The production figures page and the information contained therein, is still a mystery in my opinion. I do not feel that I have got to the bottom of the figures on this page in anyway, however it is clear that the mint standby the figure of 300 coins at this time.



 

That is huge numistacker. Well done. If the Mexican Mint screw this up now from here, they will have royally screwed the pooch going forward, even though mintages are still small by comparison.

Edited by Oldun

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That is exactly what they are saying, including other “medals”

 

But if they nailed 300 proofs to the mast and lie, they will lose credibility. In the past, they have left people to guess. This time, according to Stovall, they have said 300.

Edited by Oldun

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Because they can.....why bother asking....you can draw from last year and you already know that as does numistacker as he has well documented it,  so why bother trying to draw numistacker into your web....bad darts.

You have made it very clear insinuating that numistacker is pumping for personal profit.

Edited by Oldun

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I know from speaking to a representative of Scottsdale silver that a few years ago the Mexican mint contacted them to unload some coins that they had in the vaults from previous years. So this may be a common practice at the mint -( note - the coins were silver bullion and proof and not gold from what I can remember)

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17 minutes ago, Oldun said:

Because they can.....why bother asking....you can draw from last year and you already know that as does numistacker as he has well documented it,  so why bother trying to draw numistacker into your web....bad darts.

You have made it very clear insinuating that numistacker is pumping for personal profit.

Yeah, i was actually asking as i've never heard of a mint minting a 2015 coin in 2017, it was a very genuine question, so if you've no facts to provide other than a bit of hearsay then don't bother replying. There was no other underlying theme to my question other than curiosity and as we can only assume figures until they stop producing (which apparently they don't according to your crystal balls) then the question still stands.

I f you can't educate me then please don't reply..........As much as i can give you fact about the Rwandan coins, numistacker can obviously help with the Mexican, but as he's stated above, he's still not convinced.....

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On 27/09/2017 at 18:52, shortstack68 said:

The 1/10th is 436, you have to add all 3 months together. The end of the year will bring the complete figure together, but it's higher than the stated mintage  on the YouTube video numi uploaded last night and of course because he has the 1/10th the focus was on that coin even though he knows the figure is higher.

I wonder  what the reason behind the dis-information really is 😏 Could it be to keep the mystery alive until the MS70 coin is sold?

 

Take a knee champ.

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With all this uncertainty around what the real 2017 mintage figures are, I decided to sell my 2017 1/10 oz Gold BU Libertad MS69.  And it just sold this morning for $750 on the Bay.  I've got the 2017 1/20 oz Gold Proof Libertad PF70 up there now for $350...let's see what fishy we can get to bite on that one.  IMO, there are just too many great coins out there to play a guessing game with BdM.  If the mintage figures hold...winner winner chicken dinner.  If they don't and the Mexican Mint screws collectors once again, well, you'll never get close to $750 for the 1/10 oz BU.  I'm taking a nice profit now and will watch the rest of the year from the sidelines with my popcorn and soda...

Edited by Jester

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Why would they do a run on backdated years?

 

No what they mean is they still haven’t cleared 2015/2016 stock. They minted 1300 in 2015 and 1000 in 2016, probably some got returned and some haven’t got sold.

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55 minutes ago, Jester said:

With all this uncertainty around what the real 2017 mintage figures are, I decided to sell my my 2017 1/10 oz Gold BU Libertad MS69.  And it just sold this morning for $750 on the Bay.  I've got the 2017 1/20 oz Gold Proof Libertad PF70 up there now for $350...let's see what fishy we can get to bite on that one.  IMO, there are just too many great coins out there to play a guessing game with BdM.  If the mintage figures hold...winner winner chicken dinner.  If they don't and the Mexican Mint screws collectors once again, well, you'll never get close to $750 for the 1/10 oz BU.  I'm taking a nice profit now and will watch the rest of the year from the sidelines with my popcorn and soda...

Great job selling at that price

 

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Just checked the Mexican mint website on the 1/10th and another 166 were minted in October, so to date i've counted 803 minted so far, updated site is linked below
 
http://www.banxico.org.mx/SieInternet/consultarDirectorioInternetAction.do?sector=11&accion=consultarCuadro&idCuadro=CM12&locale=en


I seem to remember that the monthly production may not reflect the specific coin and could relate to previous years mintage residue of authorised numbers.

The mint have confirmed via Mexican Coin Broker that the mintage is 300 only.

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45 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

 


I seem to remember that the monthly production may not reflect the specific coin and could relate to previous years mintage residue of authorised numbers.

The mint have confirmed via Mexican Coin Broker that the mintage is 300 only.

 

If the mint has already declared a mintage it therefor cannot produce a previous year where the mintage is already declared........The year states 2017 and not for example 2016 or 2015. I think most realise that the mexican mint are generally full of surprises at the year end......If you’re calling it remnants from a previous year that’s 503 remnants which in any terms is a similar production for the whole of 2014, that’s quite a few remnants

Time will tell in this saga

Edited by shortstack68

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So i'm going to try and make sense of this Libertad bullion. These charts i downloaded from the Mexican mint, in the charts you can see the main strike period for all denominations of the Gold land on the 30th June 2017.

Now, i sincerly doubt that on the 30th June 2017 that they are striking "remnants" because all denominations for 2017 are being struck on the same day and has the highest output number.

As you can see, the 1/10th has on the 30th June 2017 a total of 361 coins struck, which already exceeds the 300 coins. If anyone else has a more plausible explanation and if they think that the 30th June isn't the main strike day for the 2017 coins then please let me hear what you have.

At a guess, anything below the 30th June is the "remnants" from the previous year, anything above is for this year and on demand striking

Screenshot 2017-11-03 10.33.16.png

Screenshot 2017-11-03 10.34.51.png

Screenshot 2017-11-03 10.35.49.png

Screenshot 2017-11-03 10.36.27.png

Edited by shortstack68

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So i'm going to try and make sense of this Libertad bullion. These charts i downloaded from the Mexican mint, in the charts you can see the main strike period for all denominations of the Gold land on the 30th June 2017.
Now, i sincerly doubt that on the 30th June 2017 that they are striking "remnants" because all denominations for 2017 are being struck on the same day and has the highest output number.
As you can see, the 1/10th has on the 30th June 2017 a total of 361 coins struck, which already exceeds the 300 coins. If anyone else has a more plausible explanation and if they think that the 30th June isn't the main strike day for the 2017 coins then please let me hear what you have.
At a guess, anything below the 30th June is the "remnants" from the previous year, anything above is for this year and on demand striking
59fc3a049a83f_Screenshot2017-11-0310_33_16.png.f6eb19fa1a53063f71cddbbf2a744454.png
59fc3a069762b_Screenshot2017-11-0310_34_51.png.5e4348794358d66161c20f1ca5b2f707.png
59fc3a077e7e0_Screenshot2017-11-0310_35_49.png.2de3b56358619c0d90cf8fb38eac6a12.png
59fc3a08893fd_Screenshot2017-11-0310_36_27.png.333151fe89c1050b7f3270097e7f0d63.png



I raised this issue again with Mexican Coin Broker and showed Pat these graphs and lists.

“Is this the Bank or the Mints accounting? If this is the Mint, the excess might be true, but it may not reflect the number of coins that were
rejected by quality control of the Bank and given back to the Mint by the Bank, thus ending with the final 300 pcs.
The rejects are always melted by the Mint.
There really are only 300 pcs issued by the Bank.”

The confirmation is 300 released by the bank and no more.

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One possibility could be that they minted other medals or coins in that month that contained 1/10 ounce of gold.  I do not know if this is the case but if they lump all types of other coinage in the figures - it could possibly explain the difference.

 

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5 hours ago, Pampfan said:

One possibility could be that they minted other medals or coins in that month that contained 1/10 ounce of gold.  I do not know if this is the case but if they lump all types of other coinage in the figures - it could possibly explain the difference.

 

Not entirely sure, but is banxico.org the bank or the mint? If numistacker in conversation with the Pat (mexican mint broker) states the bank figure is the accurate one then we'll be one step closer, but as i said, i'm not sure who banxico.org is

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