Flip silver for gold

[Myblueheaven]

Hello,

This may have been asked before but I am thinking of buying silver 1oz coins from Silver to go or Goldsilver.be.

I am thinking of buying in batches of 25 and then selling them asap.

Any profit saved and then doing again and so on until i can buy a sovereign with the profit, then start again and keep this up, building sovereigns from silver profits.

My question is, which do you think is the easiest 1oz silver coin to shift ?

Niue athenian owls, Britannias, Libertads etc

Any input would be appreciated even if its brutally honest Haaa

 

Regards MyBlueheaven

[Roy]

10 minutes ago, Myblueheaven said:

Any input would be appreciated even if its brutally honest Haaa

[sixgun]

Have you researched whether you can buy the coins including postage and then immediately sell them again at profit?

Sometimes this is possible. For example there has been a good deal of interest in the 2017 1 oz silver 100 Cedis Ghana Leopard which was initially released at a lower price but then it seems it was realised the face value was way too high, so the run of coins was reduced from 50 000 to 5000 and a 5 Cedis version released. Following this the price of the coin increased b/c it was a bit different and a rarer coin.
From memory the Australian Black Swan coin made some profits for early birds simply b/c it is such a nice design and was immediately appreciated.
The big recent winner is the 2017 proof sovereign. None of these are run of the mill coins, they are special situation coins which need close attention to the market and rapid action.

I suspect you are exploiting the VAT on silver coins angle. If you can buy the coins including any currency exchange costs, postage costs, packing costs, ebay or otherwise costs and still make a proft on basic bullion coins - then good luck to you. i think you will be looking at pennies profit and i suspect i will not be alone in thinking this. Profits made are likely to be due to appreciation in the price of silver between buying and selling.

[Jay2]

I once considered group-buying from GSbe to sell on via eBay but the profit margins after everything is factored in makes it not worth the effort, unless you buy bulk at a dip, and sell bulk at a spike, or as sixgun said, get lucky on a premium hiked coin. If you buy a bunch of coins from EU right now, they resell at about £4 higher, but then ebay takes £2 of that for their fee, and Paypal takes.. whatever it takes. The effort of all the packing and sending and trips to the post office would be a thankless task, I think. Unless you're doing bulk?

[BackyardBullion]

You would be lucky to make more than pennies for the coins.

Especially as I am organising monthly group orders and people on The silver forum would probably join that than pay for coins on here...

Therefore eBay is your best bet, and you will lose 15% on your seller fees +PayPal.

£15 per coin bought

Sell for £20 per coin (you would be lucky to get this though) lose £3 from eBay + sellers fees then tack on £2 for signed for delivery.

So basically no profit. 

You would need to buy for less than £15 or sell for more than £20

[Gav]

I Ike your idea. If I was in your position, I would get a few African Leopard 100 Cedis. And if GS.be don't have the 100 but the 5 then I would get 20 Niue turtles and the rest the 5 Cedis African Leopard coin.

The price is rising for the African Leopard coin and for a quick flip you will get the best return, in my humble opinion.

[Jay2]

Essentially, you and eBay would be taking 10% each for the 'VAT evasion' of it all. But you're doing all the work.

And then you give Paypal their chunk of your tiny profits.

Maybe you could sell on local social media to cut out all the annoying middle men, and people will even drive to you (well, your nearest public place - you don't want robbed!) to make the trades. Risks in that too, of course.

[Clens92]

What Gav is failing to tell you here is that he is heavily financially invested in this coin, and is trying to pump the value up.  He predicted they'd be $100 each, but they've seen a relative lack of price increase thus far.

Thought you'd been told that pumping wasn't allowed on these forums, Gav? 

His advice is not impartial and should be caveated.

[BackyardBullion]

You might have more luck with 10oz + coins. If you waited for £1 sellers fees you would have much more savings than for selling one coin at a time. 

Sell a £20 coin, save £1 and basically it's still 5% sellers fee..

Sell a 10oz coin for £200 and it is £1 sellers fee only 0.5% sellers fee - much nicer!

Otherwise it is a lot of cash to front up for very small profits...

Spending £450 to make £30 is not a good ratio.

Think of all the packaging you would have to do...trust me I spent the better part of 2 days wrapping up 85 boxes for the 1 oz silver forum bars....and I have it all to do again in about 6 weeks time...

[Gav]

What Gav is failing to tell you here is that he is heavily financially invested in this coin, and is trying to pump the value up.  He predicted they'd be $100 each, but they've seen a relative lack of price increase thus far.
Thought you'd been told that pumping wasn't allowed on these forums, Gav? 
His advice is not impartial and should be caveated.

I haven't been told that at all. All I was trying to do was alert everyone that the 100 Cedis is an error.

Turns out LosingLouie calls it a very unique error.

I didn't hide the fact that I stacked up on the coin but I tried to let you guys know when the coin was still very cheap.

Sorry buddy

[vand]

1 hour ago, Myblueheaven said:

Hello,

This may have been asked before but I am thinking of buying silver 1oz coins from Silver to go or Goldsilver.be.

I am thinking of buying in batches of 25 and then selling them asap.

Any profit saved and then doing again and so on until i can buy a sovereign with the profit, then start again and keep this up, building sovereigns from silver profits.

My question is, which do you think is the easiest 1oz silver coin to shift ?

Niue athenian owls, Britannias, Libertads etc

Any input would be appreciated even if its brutally honest Haaa

 

Regards MyBlueheaven

Sounds like a genius business plan. Nothing can go wrong. Go for it.

[augur]

6 minutes ago, vand said:

Sounds like a genius business plan. Nothing can go wrong. Go for it.

Except for the taxman who doesn't like VAT evasion and eventually CGT when not shifting Britannias or Queens Beasts?

[sovereignsteve]

Just ask yourself one question; if it were that easy, don't you think everyone on here would be doing it?

[KDave]

You asked for brutal looks like you got it buddy! Welcome to the forum 

[Gav]

You asked for brutal looks like you got it buddy! Welcome to the forum 

And we come here for the truth, even when it smacks us in the face.

 

Welcome to the forum.

[Paul]

Also what has not been added, is you only need one PayPal charge back for a scammer and you lose, your funds AND your bullion.

eBay/PayPal will favour the buyer in 99.9% of cases.

 

[sovereignsteve]

36 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

to eventually try and sell the same coin on the forum.

some do some don't, there are other avenues.

[sixgun]

So the consensus is buying relatively small quantities of silver coins at low VAT price will be a struggle to make profits. Members here do trade coins and bars, they must be making profits. i don't know where they get these from but they seem to be able to unearth pots of gold and silver. This means profits are there to be made but you have to find supplies. i recently got a few Buffalo rounds for near spot, the seller later said he had paid a £1 for them. i was happy and he was even happier. i think it has to be something of a magpie hobby. Spotting value, keeping a bit, selling most of it and using profits to buy more. i don't think the arbitrage with low VAT coins is your way forwards especially on the Silver Forum. Members here know the prices in Europe.

[oliversw5]

Ive actually been doing this for a while... I don't quite understand the negativity. I can sometimes make an extra grand a month and that was when I was running on a shoestring with a 1/4 of the stock I have now.

The angle of low premium silver is not the way forward, saying that though I won't be sharing any secrets as we would then be competing. 

I wish you luck in your quest but Ill make no bones about it, Ive seen many people try and and most of them fail...

For the record I think I will do 100k in turnover for the year with margins around 10 to 13% depending on certain factors

[Myblueheaven]

Thanks for all your replies and honest feedback.

I'm considering different avenues of funding the acquisition of the odd Sovereign every month or two, that's all this was about really

Seems from your helpful feedback I may give the silver coin flipping another thought. I have other ideas than Ebay.

I've experience of selling on Ebay and know the pros and cons and I have suffered from scammers in the past, sadly.

Luckily My good lady and I have good jobs so this is just a way of building some sort of pot for later down the line.

I'm not some sort of Delboy but saving money in a bank is boring and too easy to use when you fancy a few days on a beach somewhere on a whim, or fancy changing your cars etc.

I see collecting / stacking sovereigns or other forms of PM a little more exciting than putting X amount of my salary away every month.

I find places like this forum invaluable for advice and info as not the average person at work, friends or family can offer any advice from their experiences unlike you folks on here.

Any way thanks again,,,,,,, I'll let you know how i get on, good or bad haaa.

MyBlueheaven

 

 

 

[Clens92]

24 minutes ago, oliversw5 said:

Ive actually been doing this for a while... I don't quite understand the negativity. I can sometimes make an extra grand a month and that was when I was running on a shoestring with a 1/4 of the stock I have now.

The angle of low premium silver is not the way forward, saying that though I won't be sharing any secrets as we would then be competing. 

I wish you luck in your quest but Ill make no bones about it, Ive seen many people try and and most of them fail...

For the record I think I will do 100k in turnover for the year with margins around 10 to 13% depending on certain factors

But you will have hit the VAT threshold at this point, and have no choice but to register for VAT... the second-hand scheme doesn't allow for selling precious metals, so you'd better have a good accountant for when your tax return is due.

With that said, there is money to be made... or rather, there was  

[oliversw5]

No I haven't, gold is not included in your totals. Also due to a recent tax case, you can split it up into two companies.

 

Ill bite and add to this. 

You have 85k before you start paying VAT, due to the implications of this case you can now split to two companies of 85 so 170 (I believe it will be jumping to 90 next year but don't quote me) 

Lets make an argument that you can grow to 170k in sales @10% which is very feasible, you now have a company that is paying you 17k. Now anyone worth their weight in gold can increase those margins very easily. There is no reason that by simply being a bit savvy you can up it to the 12 to 15% mark thats just on silver. Now lets for example you are selling 170k in silver over two companies (I'm not getting into the case as it my advantage) now you have gold, I can make maybe 3 to 4% on gold, Ive heard dealers do 500k on very few sales channels just in gold but you need to have a great supply side. For arguments sake, lets say I can sell 100k in gold on top of silver at 3%. on the most basic numbers you are on 20k, by which you should be a medium size player with a lot of stock that has a moving average for the bullion sales which is where spot dictate your margins. This is for argument sake, Im not quite at that size. But lets take it further I now have a business that I can pay myself a good wage I can stay under the threshold, I can also set up another business that deals with add-ons such as cases etc but thats academic. 

Now I am not arguing for or against, its hard work. If I get it right and hit the sweet spot I have done 7k turnover in a week, but then I did a grand for the remaining 3. But to say shut up shop when you hit the turnover threshold just lacks imagination. Its not for everyone, not everyone can source the stock or do the leg work to get it off the ground, Heck Im even considering knocking it on the head. But I do this to fund my stack and the chance are my stack will be 10k bigger minus taxes (and yes I have an accountant  )

One last point I would like to add, I just really enjoy my collection as sad as that sounds and its getting tedious having to price everything constantly as it devalues in my mind what I own. Everything can now be deduced to having a price which is not why I got into collecting and stacking in the first place.

[KDave]

Interesting post oliver its nice to hear you are doing well with the sales, quite impressive turn over and as the saying goes if it was easy everyone would be doing it. 

@MBH I think everyone has looked for ways to fund the stack on top of job income at some point or another, I certainly understand it. Stick around on the forum as there have been a couple of opportunities come along in the past that have made flipping a few coins for profit possible. I seem to remember a deal with Britannia's being posted here from one dealer about a year ago that made plenty of people some money, and recently a steal from coin portfolio for the anniversary silver Krugerrand. I made decent returns on a whole bunch of those which went straight back into metals.

My philosophy is that there are perhaps 2 or 3 opportunities to make easy money per year, and everything else is graft or time.

[Myblueheaven]

@KDave, I will be sticking around and reading posts trying to gather as much knowledge off others as I can, thanks for your input.

I will prob just stick with buying sovereigns for now and maybe in time have a bit more knowledge on the stacking of bullion and numismatic alternatives.

Ive already made my first mistake but that's how you learn sometimes.

I bought some 9ct gold items from online auctions but didn't fully anticipate the fees and delivery costs and ended up paying more than scrap value. But I will just hold onto it and add it to my scrap gold collection until I'm ready to sell. I wont make that mistake again.

MyBlueheaven

 

[Jay2]

@Myblueheaven My first coin mistake is now a 'valuable'  (worthless) keepsake to remind me of the error of my ways. I am fairly sure there will be a similar keepsake made of gold one day too. We live and learn