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*tada*

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  1. Like
    *tada* reacted to Numistacker in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   



    I raised this issue again with Mexican Coin Broker and showed Pat these graphs and lists.

    “Is this the Bank or the Mints accounting? If this is the Mint, the excess might be true, but it may not reflect the number of coins that were
    rejected by quality control of the Bank and given back to the Mint by the Bank, thus ending with the final 300 pcs.
    The rejects are always melted by the Mint.
    There really are only 300 pcs issued by the Bank.”

    The confirmation is 300 released by the bank and no more.
  2. Like
    *tada* reacted to shortstack68 in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   
    So i'm going to try and make sense of this Libertad bullion. These charts i downloaded from the Mexican mint, in the charts you can see the main strike period for all denominations of the Gold land on the 30th June 2017.
    Now, i sincerly doubt that on the 30th June 2017 that they are striking "remnants" because all denominations for 2017 are being struck on the same day and has the highest output number.
    As you can see, the 1/10th has on the 30th June 2017 a total of 361 coins struck, which already exceeds the 300 coins. If anyone else has a more plausible explanation and if they think that the 30th June isn't the main strike day for the 2017 coins then please let me hear what you have.
    At a guess, anything below the 30th June is the "remnants" from the previous year, anything above is for this year and on demand striking




  3. Like
    *tada* reacted to Jester in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   
    With all this uncertainty around what the real 2017 mintage figures are, I decided to sell my 2017 1/10 oz Gold BU Libertad MS69.  And it just sold this morning for $750 on the Bay.  I've got the 2017 1/20 oz Gold Proof Libertad PF70 up there now for $350...let's see what fishy we can get to bite on that one.  IMO, there are just too many great coins out there to play a guessing game with BdM.  If the mintage figures hold...winner winner chicken dinner.  If they don't and the Mexican Mint screws collectors once again, well, you'll never get close to $750 for the 1/10 oz BU.  I'm taking a nice profit now and will watch the rest of the year from the sidelines with my popcorn and soda...
  4. Like
    *tada* reacted to shortstack68 in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   
    The end of the year figure will be the one to check, Mexico are notorious for dropping the bombshell figures, so, best to let it rest until then, although i'm not sure what they mean by medal in the 1/10th column
  5. Like
    *tada* reacted to Numistacker in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   
    I have now been in email correspondence with Pat Stovall from Mexican coin broker about this issue.

    He says

    “This is a reply I got back this morning from the bank regarding that page:

    "Regarding the web page you are referring to, please note that the information is for the “coins and medals in fine metals put into circulation”, this is translated to the number of coins we are selling each month and this includes coins minted in previous years."

    I believe the key is "coins and medals". The bank and the mint are forever issuing medals for many different events, and honoring many different individuals for whatever reason. Thus they are included along with the coins.

    The bank stands firm on the mintage of the 2017 1/10 oz gold Libertad BU as 300.”

    The bank has now confirmed the 300 mintage figure 3 times when asked.

    The production figures page and the information contained therein, is still a mystery in my opinion. I do not feel that I have got to the bottom of the figures on this page in anyway, however it is clear that the mint standby the figure of 300 coins at this time.





  6. Like
    *tada* reacted to Pampfan in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   
    Me too - I have already sold mine for a hefty profit - but would like to know what is really going on. 
    And just want to thank @shortstack68 and @Numistackerfor getting to the bottom of this. 
     
  7. Like
    *tada* reacted to Jester in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   
    I love my 2017 1/10 BU and 1/20 Proof and they both graded well but if this is how our neighbours to the south are going to be running their shop going forward with smokescreens and misinformation (if that turns out to be the case) then these will be my last two Libertads...too many other great coins out there. It'll be interesting to hear what Numi finds out from Pat.
  8. Like
    *tada* reacted to Numistacker in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   


    The figures are public audit figures not released minted items. They never tally 100%
  9. Like
    *tada* reacted to Numistacker in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   
    Yawn - ))
    I have been monitoring these Banco Mexico figures for a while and they have been discussed heavily in the Libertad forum on Bullionstacker. My take on it is this...
    These audit figures are the figures that are machine production figures and they don't seem to tally to actual mintage figures this year or any other year and why should they? I dont really understand why anyone is focused on them at all. I would be more worried if they were less than the disclosed mintage not more. It is clear for the gold BU that they are very easily damaged and perhaps coins are rejected (this is almost certainly the case). I get my figures from Pat Stovall of Mexican Coin Broker who travels to Mexico very often to pick up coins direct from the mint.  One time in the years I have known Pat he was outfoxed by a mint surprise (in 2015) and this is the ONLY time this has happened to my knowledge.
    His allocation initially was about 17 coins for the 1/10th and most dealers got no allocation. 17 coins! and he is the best known specialist Mexico dealer...His allocation sold in 1 hour and when I replied they were gone. He then got a subsequent small allocation of another dozen or less coins and because I had missed out originally one was allocated to me.
    The mint may choose in January 2018 to mint more of them or they may not. I suspect after the uproar in 2016 when everyone thought they had rarities they may choose not to do this again but they could, we will see if they do.
    In any case the manufacture figures are always higher than the declared mintage figures and are only an approximation. Is there any off mintage stuff happening? VIP presents? A couple for the mint director etc.. well yes possibly but there is the same stuff going on at every mint including the Royal Mint I would assume.
    I have seen posts on other forums saying maybe there are twice as many gold sets minted and maybe they are given as bribes and backhanders to Mexican syndicate crime families. Personally I dont buy this as there is absolutely no evidence. I have never seen gold sets available with no COA. The number of singles of most years is low to the point of invisibility even for so called plentiful years and the number of graded populations is very low and always in proportion to the mintages that are declared.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  10. Like
    *tada* reacted to Numistacker in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   
    Which dealers? 
    There are maybe 15 or so dealers in USA and Germany who seem to get most of these coins. Most of them didn't get an allocation of the 1/10th at all.  I am sure that the dealers make suggestions but from what I can see the Mexican mint are very independent minded. APMEX seems to get them to do special sets but others seem to get what they are given.  It seems that dealers can only profit by having things to sell that are saleable. Tiny mintages dont make them money nor do large mintages. Libertads are fascinating due to relative not absolute mintages.
     
     
  11. Like
    *tada* reacted to Numistacker in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   
    Official 2017 Libertad Mintages




  12. Like
    *tada* reacted to Numistacker in Where are all the 2017 1/10 oz gold libertads   
    Assuming they don't mint any more it might be a bargain. The 2003 is the other 300 mintage year and Ritchie on eBay Frenchburntpeanuts has one for sale at much more. I don't think it's going to rocket but it's likely to hold value and be sought after.
  13. Like
    *tada* reacted to Numistacker in 2017 1/4oz Gold Libertad Proof or Bullion?   
    Firstly, either option is a good but. It is true that the proof will have a higher mintage this year compared to the BU but it will have a low mintage than the equivalent coin last year and in absolute terms the mintages is still very low for a very beautiful semi numismatic coin.

    So far I have only bought the BU coin as the proof will be far easier to find going forward. The proof is probably more attractive but the BU is likely to be a semi key date and will hold it's value well going forward.

    2018 is likely to be a design change year for the Libertad.
  14. Like
    *tada* reacted to westminstrel in New 2017 Quintuple Sovereign   
    They were sold out like a month ago. I'm almost certain these are returns.
  15. Thanks
    *tada* got a reaction from whitesands1 in 2017 UK Bicentenary Piedfort Sovereign   
    The RM stuck 3750 in total (hence the stated/max mintage is 3750 vs 3500 shown in online offering), and submitted the first 250 for special release via distributor. They have been releasing a lot more coins with this process now.
     
    Of course we now have more labels than ever :s
     
    PCGS First Strike / NGC First Release / NGC Early Release = coins submitted within 30 days of release
     
    NGC One of First * Struck = actually what it states. NGC have been working with many world mints to get such releases
     
    PCGS doesn't have one of * struck labels yet, but they have special limited edition printed labels (like gold foil) and call it one of xx
     
  16. Like
    *tada* got a reaction from PolarPanda in Gold Libertad 2017 mintages?   
    Just got this back from NGC, happy with the grade and it's a keeper! Hope the mintage doesn't go up too crazy by year end. Banco de Mexico sure loves giving us collectors some surprises


  17. Like
    *tada* got a reaction from PolarPanda in Gold Libertad 2017 mintages?   
    Just got this back from NGC, happy with the grade and it's a keeper! Hope the mintage doesn't go up too crazy by year end. Banco de Mexico sure loves giving us collectors some surprises


  18. Like
    *tada* reacted to HyHy in 2017 UK Bicentenary Piedfort Sovereign   

    Well I really can’t be bothered about the “one of the first 250 struck” designation actually... as long as it is a PF70 grade. To answer your question I do have the “one of first 250 struck” designation for my silver proof unicorn and apparently NGC just judge it based on the CoA...
  19. Like
    *tada* got a reaction from PolarPanda in Gold Libertad 2017 mintages?   
    Just got this back from NGC, happy with the grade and it's a keeper! Hope the mintage doesn't go up too crazy by year end. Banco de Mexico sure loves giving us collectors some surprises


  20. Like
    *tada* reacted to Numistacker in Gold Libertad 2017 mintages?   


    In 2015 with a semi key mintage of 500 sets Coins lasted almost 12 months at Apmex.

    600 is low and these will sell out quicker. I am a 2017 buyer and did not pick up a 2016 gold set due to the mintage
  21. Like
    *tada* reacted to Jester in Gold Libertad 2017 mintages?   
    Fairly high for the Libertad line, right?  Even after adding 500 coins to account for the five coin set, a total mintage of 600 coins for a globally-known and loved coin from a major Government Mint is very low.
  22. Like
    *tada* reacted to Numistacker in Gold Libertad 2017 mintages?   


    Whilst these mintages may seem low, historically, they are in fact fairly high. You need to add to each one of these numbers the 500 proof sets.

    Even the low mintage 1/20 has 20% higher mintage available than 2015.

    In 2016 There was a massive increase in mintage to 2100 of each coin. Even now plenty of these coins are available on the market for low prices. I suspect that they over-minted the 2016 proof Libertad and this year they feel they need to cut back a little.

    Providing the price is good, I would recommend buying the five coin gold set this year.





  23. Like
    *tada* reacted to sovereignsteve in 2017 UK Bicentenary Piedfort Sovereign   
    I would have thought "first coin struck from die" would be a goer.
  24. Haha
    *tada* got a reaction from westminstrel in 2017 UK Bicentenary Piedfort Sovereign   
     
    Hush hush, you may have accidentally helped the grading companies to create a label called "one of the first dies ever used". Imagine the cost of obtaining such rarities!
  25. Like
    *tada* reacted to westminstrel in 2017 UK Bicentenary Piedfort Sovereign   
    According to my understanding, the dies are anyway polished etc. after every few coins are struck, at least in the case of Proof coins. So does it really matter if you get one of the first 250 versus one of the last 250?
    Rhetorical question